Safely transporting untrained weanling?

[Lil-patch-of-heaven]

My little guy is finally ready to come home and I go to pick him up tomorrow. I got to thinking about it tho -- he's only run with the herd and not been handled and I am concerned about his safety while traveling. It's going to be about a 2-hour ride and I planned to use an enclosed trailer that is about 5x8 and around 4' high. There is a divider but the front section is smaller and has no air vent to the outside. There are tie-down loops inside but I don't want to tie him, especially since I can't see him.

I could take a goat along so he won't be alone back there. He was raised with goats, but he won't know my goat so I think I'd probably just stress the goat with no benefit to the weanling. I could also put the goat in a separate compartment but again I don't really know it would help him.

I have a 4-door car but see no way to get a cria loaded. I also have access to a pickup with small cab extension but I think the back seats folded up still won't give him much room. I don't have any cage large enough fir the back of the pickup so I think the trailer is my only option.

I wish I could have halter broken him and trained him to load but the breeder couldn't give me access.

I'm wondering if it's better to put a loose collar on him to restrain him until I get him into his pasture I don't like the idea of his first haltering experience being rushed and potentially traumatic. His safety comes first though, obviously.

Speaking of halters, I have not been able to find one for a llama. Only horse halters at tsc, and even the foal ones look too big for a weanling llama? I'm pretty good at making things but I'm not sure how to go about it since different animals fit halters differently.

Suggestions and input much appreciated! I am suddenly feeling a little overwhelmed and wish I'd started looking into these particular issues sooner.

Thanks!!!

 

[ksalvagno]

http://store.useful-items.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=UI&Category_Code=HLTRS

http://www.camelidynamics.com/home/cam/smartlist_35/halters.html

Here are 2 sites to get a halter from. The average store doesn't sell llama/alpaca halters. I will tell you that my favorite halters are the Camelidynamic halters. They are adjustable both around the head and around the nose. I find that they generally have a much better fit on the camelid.

The llama will probably be fine by himself in the trailer. I would make sure you have taken care of getting gas, personal needs, etc before you put him in the trailer so you can go straight home with no stopping. They usually kush when the car is moving. Hopefully the trailer has vents somewhere so air is getting through.

If you use a dog collar or something just to get him from the trailer to the pasture, make sure that it is snug enough that it doesn't come off. You don't want him slipping out of it because it is too loose.

 

[Lil-patch-of-heaven]

Thanks Karen
I haven't had time to reply but I appreciated your post.

I ordered the halters you mentioned. After looking at how they are made to fit, I want those to work with him.

He WAS fine on the trip. Tried to kush to avoid going in but the breeder hustled him on in. Getting him into my pasture was the hardest part since he decided then to buck and jump around and I didn't want to let him hurt himself. He really calmed down pretty quickly. I am looking forward to working with him. My female is one of the biggest llamas I have ever seen and she's very dominant too. We have an understanding in a way -- she almost seems to read my mind and knows what I want. If I let her do it her way she will comply. The breeder today confirmed that -- said she always was bossy. This little guy is much smaller of couse and though he's never been handled he is freindly as far as wanting to meet people and curious and calms down quickly. I like his personality.

I put him in with the others after giving him time to settle and meet them through the fence. My girl's head popped up at his first little cry. She hasn't seen a llama in a few weeks and although she is usually with the goats and especially likes the kids, and is curious about everything that goes on, I wanted her to have other llamas around.

She came quickly and sniffed him. He is the cria of one of her herdmates so I imagine she remembers him. I don't think she's thrilled though ...

She spent much of the afternoon further from the goats than usual and her ears were back a lot of the time. She has come up to sniff him a few times. She spit at him when I gave her a taste of grain by thebarn but that didn't surprise me. She doesn't want anyone bothering her about food. She wouldn't let him come near when she was eating either. He doesn't want feed, just not to be alone. He was tense and crying while she ate.

On the other hand he really fit in great with the goats. Especially my tiny bottle-baby doeling. I don't know what it is about her but EVERYone loves her -- she is the other llama's favorite too. I've seen the female llama kushed and this doeling walking around on her back.

Anyway the weanling had a great time running, playing, and browsing with the goat kids (and my one doe who thinks she's still a kid). When he saw my dog outside the fence he ran around behind the female. I'm not sure what she thought -- her ears were backtheentire time. They sniff when they meet and he is mildly submissive.

I wanted to see her reaction to another llama so I could start to figure out if she'd be better off with an older gelding or a young or adult female. So far I'm not sure she wants another llama around but it's early to tell and maybe she just didn't like that particular boy much.

He had a weaning buddy at the breeders. I also have to decide who he'll eventually be pastured with. Both my buck and wether are going to have horns and I plan on putting them in their own pasture so they are out as companions.

But so far so good. Those halters should be here in a few days and I think in the meantime I'll try to get him used to being handled a bit. Today wasn't TOO traumatic but I want a good base by the time I start getting him used to the halter.

Oh, and the trailer is vented at the back. It's just that if I section it off, the front section would only be vented to the back section while the back section is directly vented to the outside. It is not vented on the front or sides -- only the back if that makes sense.

thanks again!!!

 

[ksalvagno]

The female llama probably wants to make sure the little guy understands who is in charge. They do have a herd order. She may also smell testosterone and wants to make sure he knows she isn't interested. Llamas take a while to truly accept a new one into the herd. First it starts out with acceptance of them being in the same area, then slowly they accept them being part of the herd.

I'm sure things will work out. But he will get interested in females and will try to breed them. So you may want to move him in the near future out of the girls pen. You could certainly try him with the boys but you would have to be very careful of the horns.

 

[Lil-patch-of-heaven]

Thanks again Karen!

I do think it will work out, though it's only temporary. I'm not sure if I've done either of them any favors. I may go ahead and let Jim start spending some time in an adjacent area and see if she actually looks for his company. I'm getting the idea that she was happier with just the goats. I'll watch them over time and see what I can figure out.

I'll almost surely get him some other companion. I want to work with him a lot and I don't want him smelling like buck goat lol. Besides ... I DO worry about horns. No matter how careful I mught be I wouldn't want something to happen and with the males it just looks that much riskier. Of course they are already into serious play with their little stubby horns already.

The breeder said I had 5 months tops before I move him from her pasture. I'd actually like to do all I can to prevent him even becoming frustrated. I'm expecting at this point to geld him, whick I've been told you have to wait until they are two? But at one his testosterone is going to kick in? It would be mice if I had the freedom to pasture him with does and/or female llamas in the future and not have him make any overtures. I'm told that's possible as long as he's never been bred.

Anyway .... My pasture was once divided into three areas so I have options. The area for the bucks is separate and unfortunately a nit smaller. I also have a large already-fenced yard and a long slice not yet fenced in I found out is ours too. So thankfully it's all do-able. I'll just have to build more shelters since there are only 2 so far.

Thanks again. Hopefully those halters will be here soon and hopefully I'll get the goose run extended and the rabbits nest boxes built and my poor tomatoes and peppers in the ground so I can have time to start him this week. . Seems like there's always something needs doing ...

 

[ksalvagno]

How old is the little guy? There is the possibility of them being fertile at 6 months. For the most part that is unlikely but the possibility is there. I know llamas usually are a bit later than alpacas but I'm not sure on timing. We just always got boys out of the girls area when they hit 6 months old.

Yes, it is VERY important to wait to geld him until 2 years old. He needs the testosterone for bone growth. If you take that testosterone away too early, the bones grow long and narrow and he will have a high probability of having problems later on. Especially broken bones. He could just be running and break a bone depending on how narrow the bone is.

Ultimate for you would be for him to have another buddy and be out of the girls pasture but it comes down to doing what you can do. It is better if they have never bred before to be able to put them in with the girls once they are gelded. You would need to wait a minimum of 2 months before putting him in with the girls after gelding.

Good luck with the training.

 

[Lil-patch-of-heaven]

Hmmmm ....

He's about 6 months. NO sign of interest in acting like a boy, unlike both my bucklings at 2 months. If need be I could separate him immediately if it comes up though I don't have a companion for him yet.

I noticed bringing him in made a lot of changes in the whole group. My female may not be much of a "guard" now though she seemed to be shaping into one. However -- my pastures are pretty safe and I lock them up at night so that's less a concern than I first planned.

However -- I want some time to work with him alone before I bring any other llama in for him. I run the risk of his "buddy" being sold but I think he can make new friends.

Got the halter set in and I like the looks of them. I have not tried to fit one to him and don't plan to until we get past some other steps. He knows his name and knows what being called to come means though he is still wary. I'm not pushing him. Right now he is watching the female come when called and eat from my hand and she let's me touch her head and neck. He's so interested in watching what she does, I thought it would be good to let him learn that for a short time.

I can't go TOO slowly though. They both need shearing and fast ...

Thanks very much for the info. Sorry it took so long to respond -- hard to get online lately.