What Correction for LGD Behavior?

[LoneOakGoats]

It will go up today. Thanks everyone!

 

[moffitthill]

Although I agree with many of your points I can tell you that out of the 50 or so calls/ emails I received for poultry issues with LGD's last year alone, the e-collars rarely worked. These dogs are fully aware when the collar is on and when it is not. I have seen the same for LGD's that chase their livestock... at best minimal effect in correcting the behavior.

E-collars are very effective training tools but having said that in 35 years I personally have not needed to use one. I see them used mostly and effectively in hunting dogs, rarely in LGD's. I personally rely on the human/dog bond relationship.

Avoidance is good but it also can lead to allowing hawks and owls to come in and take poultry. There are 3 stages of poultry issues that most LGD's go through. Usually birth through 5/6 months nothing... then comes first stage of poultry issues at 5-7 months... from there 2 other stages follow. Some LGD's are definitely more suited to poultry than others. The Anatolians IMO are the MOST difficult in regards to training them to poultry.

As I said... not tech savvy...meant to like and popped up this box...trying to like ... fat fingers

 

[moffitthill]

I am a firm believer that static is not a substitute for training but any dog after proper personalized training and investment of time and consistency is not "getting it" AND (not or) is or becomes a safety issue. Yep...time to consider static. Training is what I do... I work with dogs family pets, rescues, dogs that have been field trained and herd trained and agility trained by other trainers for whatever...etc etc. I work with hard cases. Priorities are 5 Fundamentals including Functionality... who cares if your dog can sit for 10 minutes in the other room with even distractions if it doesn't focus and function safely and can be enjoyed. I work with assuring pack hierarchy based on respect... not fear. If static is your "final opportunity" for resolution after all other measures... Please do not point your remote at the pet like you are trying to change a TV channel. Please no that this is not a matter of right or wrong school of thought. Sometimes best to agree to disagree ... smart posts... but Robbin... on the dog knowing static correction comes from owner... I typically disagree. Most dogs should not know. Unless you evaluate behavior, temperament, etc in typical familiar environment (and OK evaluator there by family/owner - safe and good to go), evaluate again outside that environment (unfamiliar place with ok evaluator) and again evaluate in unfamiliar place and introduce unfamiliar person... it is difficult to discern best way to utilize static. What does the dog know? What does it listen/do consistently, what does it "maybe" and what do you struggle with? If you introduce static when not solution for dog (can cause confusion, meltdown, anxieties, a defensive aggression, etc) or used incorrectly (can cause again confusion, not be effective for correction of cause, etc)... So, bottom line, you can cause bigger issues -- bigger than ones than caused by improper approach of training for a particular dog. Sometimes reverse psychology is very effective too. Most busy herders -- are different than the more guardian type personality. They love to work and be busy... just being outside in a spacious run does not always meet activity or working needs. So many things to consider. I don't have a solution as I feel it would be remiss to do so without more info... except to say that MOST should not know in my experience (over 99% in my 40 years of training -- though most have not needed static at all so that % is of ones that did over the years)... you can't be there all the time and most dogs need to learn the job, boundaries and basic momentary decision making...but again depends on dog and what does or does not motivate learning/working. Remember too that eval determines the learning capabilities... just because many working or herding breed are a "smart" breed... some individuals are not always the brightest bulbs.

 

[Robbin]

In my case, inability to insure recall is what led me to use a E collar. My dog would chase deer OFF my property and would come in contact with two roads. I had to stop him while still on my property (80 acres). In my case, I was using the E collar to inforce a voice command. . For me, it's a safety issue and I wanted him to realize that the command would be followed by static correction if he ignored the command. I have an inground static fence, so static correction that he didn't know came from me, would be misinterpetted as hitting a fence where there wasn't one before. I made that mistake the first time and the dog avoided the area for weeks after during our walks. Since then I've made sure he gets a forceful command, followed by a page, the followed by a correction. It worked. Two actual shocks and two pager vibrates and I've only had to use it once since then because of a stray dog near our property line that he was bound and determined to chase into the next county.

Now if I could just get him to think that the deer are livestock and need to be protected....

 

[big mami]

Not to hijack this thread, but I have a similar issue. We recently adopted a 1 year 2 month old Maremma who had been fenced outside (surrounding) ducks on her previous farm. We have her with an older LGD with two goats, and their orchard shares a fence with the chicken yard. Our older LGD ignores the chickens when we let them into the orchard, but when my husband tried to introduce them to the young one, she wound up killing and partially eating one (when he had gone up to the house). He reprimanded her quite loudly and firmly with dead chicken in hand, and she sunk down and looked really guilty and sorry.

My question is, what to do now? I really want the chickens to be able to come into the orchard. My thought was to put her on a leash and hang out with her while the chickens visit for a few times. Very time consuming, but perhaps it would work? Is she trainable? Southern By Choice, what do you think?

 

[babsbag]

I used an e collar on my LGDs for poultry and it worked well. I did not let them know that I was the one controlling the pain. I didn't give them a warning, if they looked at a chicken in "that way" they got the highest shock the collar could give. It did take time, and I do think that they knew when the collar was on and when it wasn't, just bringing out the collar would change their behavior, didn't have to even use it. Part of my success may have simply been them growing out of that stage.

My BCs have also been trained with a shock collar for rattlesnake avoidance. The trainer did not let them know he had the remote. They learned quickly and probably something I need to have done again; it has been a lot of years.