Where to buy, what to buy, where to start?

[ourflockof4]

If you have a good relationship with your vet that would be your best bet, or at least a good place to start.

Yes, dairy will get rid of all of their bull calves, and even heifers if they are not trying to expand their herd. They need to keep having calves to keep their cows fresh. If they are not expanding their herd they will sometimes breed their cows to a beef breed bull also.

Since you are starting to look, just a few term to clarify that will help you know what other people are talking about

bull - intact male, usually mature
bull calf - young male calf that has not been castrated
steer - male calf that has been casturated
heifer - young female, could be a calf or full grown that has not had a calf
heiferette - female that has only given birth once (not everyone uses this)
cow - female that has given birth 2 or more times

There will be reginal variations, but these term will get you close. If you start talking to a farmer about buying a "cow" he may not know you want a feeder calf unless he can read between the lines and see what you actually want.

What breed you should get will depend on what you want your goal is. If it's just to use your pasture to put beef in your freezer then you want something that does well finishing on grass (more heritage breeds). If you are fine with throwing some grain at them to get a good finish then any beef or heritage breed will work. If you don't mind throwing a lot of grain at them then you would be fine with a dairy breed.

Typically a cross will grow better then a pure breed (black baldy is a cross, angus/hereford) because of hybrid vigor. Don't shy away frm any cross as long as it will fit your goals and is docile.

It is better to buy from an area farmer if you can but don't be afraid of craigslist, but be very selective. We just picked up some cattle from a guy on CL, some very nice cows with calves. The ONLY reason he was selling was because he was short on feed. In my area it is also very hard to find a farmer willing to sell calves.

Also, don't rule out a young cow/calf pair. I know if may seem odd, but short wean the calf and butcher the cow. Beef in the freezer now, and then more in another year. A heiferette or young cow will eat just fine.

 

[Mike Fronczak]

I have had mixed results with craigslist, first two groups of cattle we bought, guys were standup people, the third...not so much. Just like anything else buyer beware. I haven't tried auctions, have heard mixed stories as well. Its tough when you don't know a lot to start with, then you are kinda forced to trust others, if your vet knows of someone thats great, around here we have three types of vets (cattle, horse & small animal), & even though the area is realitivly rural the general vet (small animal), where my sister in law is a tech, had no clue for who we should call when we had a problem with our heifer. As far as the dairy breeds, last season we raised two Jersy steers (one was a cross) for beef, it went OK it just reqiued alot of grain and the meat had a lot of marbling (or included fat in the meat) a little more greasy than I like. That said, hay here is in short supply so if you are going to need to grain (if you don't have hay) it wouldn't make a difference, (or maybe 2 scoops as uposed to 1 for a beef breed), but your already out there.

 

[ksalvagno]

Here is something else to think about. I have been reading The Contrary Farmer by Gene Logsdon. It is very interesting. He has a chapter on livestock in his book. He said what he does is to have a calf about March and then butcher at about 7-8 months old which puts it around November. It is smaller but it is raised on pasture and mom's milk (he lets the calf nurse so he only ends up with the milk he wants). Then when winter comes, it isn't another mouth to feed and his cow's milk output is smaller.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

Thank all so much.

We are looking to raise one for beef and I definitely want docile. So it sounds like we would probably want a steer, but could also get a cow if we can't find a steer but just will not get as much meat, right?

No. If you get a cow (being a mature female bovine), you have the opportunity to breed her to produce a calf every year for you to raise as a feeder/stocker animal for the freezer. She won't be for butchering, unless you want to have a freezer full of ground beef and/or sausage.

What age you want to butcher your feeder/stocker animal (can be either steer or heifer [heiferette isn't really used all that commonly by myself, fyi]), or what weight you wish to butcher a feeder animal at will affect the amount of meat you will get when you decide to butcher. Breeding also has a lot to do with it too. For instance, if you compare the hot-carcass weight (NOT the ready-to-eat weight of meat) of a 12 month old Jersey steer to a 12 month-old Charolas-AngusX cross steer, the carcass of the Jersey is going to be quite a bit lighter than the Char-angus one. Not to mention you'll have a much lower dressage percentage from the Jersey than from the charX steer. (By "dressage" I mean the amount of meat that is obtained from an entire carcass after it has been cured in the cooler.)

When we had a steer to butcher, we actually finished him on a mix of barley grain and grass/hay, and finished him at a weight of 1200 lbs. Carcass weight for the steer was ~450 lbs. He was a Simmental-cross steer that had a busted leg, and wasn't finished so that he got as fat as those feedlot steers get when near their finisher weight. Certainly was good eating though!!

Going back to your initial question here, I say "no" because you're automatically and wrongly assuming that a cow will have a lower dressage percentage than a feeder steer. Cows are not small animals; the current average weight for cows all over the world is 1660 lbs. Cows can get a bit bigger than that. A steer or heifer is butchered at an average of around 1200 to 1400 lbs. Between these two animals, the dressage percentage is most likely going to be the same as the other, possibly more as far as a cow is concerned if she is finished prior to slaughter and not simply slaughtered right off pasture. Also remember beef cows are more beefier and "thicker" than dairy cows.


I think maybe what we could do is get two so they have companionship, then have then processed and sell one (we don't have the freezer space for two but I do not want to just have one if it would be unkind).

It would be a little much to say that it would be "unkind" to have them alone. Though your idea is good, there really is not much issue with having a bovine by itself because they are adaptable. However, it still is true that they do feel safer having a "buddy" or with a herd.

So just to make sure I understand, crosses are fine, even it is with a dairy-type, but if it is dairy, people sell them younger...I am assuming because they want to keep the milk for themselves, right? I wonder if that would be less expensive though too (but probably more work on our part since we would have to bottle feed them).

You will get more meat from a dairy-beef cross than from a dairy-dairy cross. Calves are sold a couple days old because of the fact that the dairy cows need to be put into production almost immediately on the dairy farm. A calf is only on its dam for a couple days to get colostrum, then it is taken off and either sold if it's a bull calf or a freemartin (sterile heifer that was twinned with a bull calf) to be raised as veal calves (newborn calves are not slaughtered because there's no value nor any meat on such calves; they are fattened up for a few months as calves then slaughtered as veal), or kept as a replacement heifer and bottle-fed.

It's less expensive at first purchase, but overall, the most expensive if you purchase a bottle-baby dairy calf to raise up for slaughter. For one, there's costs going into milk replacer formula, then there's the surmounting costs of the amount grain feed you must invest in to fatten or even help a dairy animal grow up well enough without getting into nutritional problems. You can finish dairy steers/heifers on grass, but you better make very sure that grass is better than moderate to good quality. If it's between moderate/good quality and not excellent quality, or lower than moderate/good quality, you better be supplementing with grain. And that will empty out your wallet pretty quick.

With beefers, you can raise them to grow on grass that is between moderate to excellent quality. Fattening/finishing beefers on excellent quality grass is optimal if not recommended. It's even better when you come across a producer that will sell you beefers that come off of cows that have been raised on just grass, no supplements (except mineral), because they have essentially been bred to be excellent forage-converters (some call it "grass-fed genetics"). When you get something like that, if you have what would be considered by a dairy farmer to be "poor-quality" grass, I'll guarantee you that those beefers will get fat on it. This means less money having to spend on supplementation, and even on medicines, though you still gotta vaccinate your animals for diseases that they will have the highest risk of contracting. Initially the costs are much higher purchasing weaner beefers than baby dairy calves, but overall those beefers are going to be paying for themselves. Same with those beef cows, if you decide to go raise a couple beef cows.

I think what I might do is ask my vet if he knows who we might buy locally from since he knows everyone and I trust his opinion

We're also here to help too if you have any more questions. I know you're probably going to be asking about finishing/slaughtering questions, since I brought up some points for you to think about.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

If you get a cow (being a mature female bovine), you have the opportunity to breed her to produce a calf every year for you to raise as a feeder/stocker animal for the freezer. She won't be for butchering, unless you want to have a freezer full of ground beef and/or sausage.

Boy did I need to learn the lingo

I think I meant to say that a steer (a neutered bull calf) or a heifer (female calf, right). Is there a difference in taste, texture, between the two then? I am leaning towards steer but just want to make sure I understand the basics so thank you for helping me get a good foundation here.

I am not really wanting to actually keep a breeding animal at this point and am looking more to get a few young animals, raise them for the freezer, and then see how well we liked the experience before we would consider getting a cow to breed/produce our own freezer cattle.

 

[Cricket]

Steers tend to be more muscled, I think. The problem around here would be that I'd start looking at the heifer and decide to breed her instead of butcher! Steers are pretty much a done deal unless you can justify keeping a really big pet. About company--I think one would be pretty happy if it was in the vicinity of the goats. I've often just had one with the horse and they don't seem in the least mopey.

And not to argue with the people that prefer to raise beef instead of dairy or that it may be more cost effective for some, but you can raise dairy steers without a lot of grain. I give mine about a 1 qt yogurt container twice a day until they are eating hay or grass well and by 4 months or so they're down to 1/2 that. After that it's more about giving them a treat. A lot of it probably depends on how much marbling you like and what you're used to. We've eaten lean beef for so long that corn fed beef is about like over-eating scallops--the first tastes really good and by the 5th bite you've had enough.

Cost-wise, dairy bulls that are under 100lb. are cheapest and you'd want to get them at the farm, preferably born outside and given cholostrum. The last bag of milk replacer I bought last spring was $75.00, disbudding (with anesthesia) was $20. and castration (w/o) was $26.00, plus the travel costs which I split between everyone. I think are vets are higher priced in this state.

I also notice that a number of people specifically don't like to have to bottle feed and that's my favorite part

 

[Symphony]

Steers tend to be more muscled, I think. The problem around here would be that I'd start looking at the heifer and decide to breed her instead of butcher! Steers are pretty much a done deal unless you can justify keeping a really big pet. About company--I think one would be pretty happy if it was in the vicinity of the goats. I've often just had one with the horse and they don't seem in the least mopey.

And not to argue with the people that prefer to raise beef instead of dairy or that it may be more cost effective for some, but you can raise dairy steers without a lot of grain. I give mine about a 1 qt yogurt container twice a day until they are eating hay or grass well and by 4 months or so they're down to 1/2 that. After that it's more about giving them a treat. A lot of it probably depends on how much marbling you like and what you're used to. We've eaten lean beef for so long that corn fed beef is about like over-eating scallops--the first tastes really good and by the 5th bite you've had enough.

Cost-wise, dairy bulls that are under 100lb. are cheapest and you'd want to get them at the farm, preferably born outside and given cholostrum. The last bag of milk replacer I bought last spring was $75.00, disbudding (with anesthesia) was $20. and castration (w/o) was $26.00, plus the travel costs which I split between everyone. I think are vets are higher priced in this state.

I also notice that a number of people specifically don't like to have to bottle feed and that's my favorite part

As for taste difference, I would be surprised to find anyone that could tell you in a blind taste test that they are eating a Heifer or a Steer. They may be able to tell you Corn fed over Grass but that's not always the case either. Most Cattle we eat in the area in the past have been Corn fed Steers and Heifers but now I'm eating grass fed and finishing with grain for increased marbling and flavor.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

If you get a cow (being a mature female bovine), you have the opportunity to breed her to produce a calf every year for you to raise as a feeder/stocker animal for the freezer. She won't be for butchering, unless you want to have a freezer full of ground beef and/or sausage.

Boy did I need to learn the lingo

I think I meant to say that a steer (a neutered bull calf) or a heifer (female calf, right). Is there a difference in taste, texture, between the two then? I am leaning towards steer but just want to make sure I understand the basics so thank you for helping me get a good foundation here.

No to all. You can't nor will ever be able to taste the difference between a steer and a heifer. Even average daily gains are not much different between steers and heifers. Steers are favored over heifers because a) heifers are primarily used as replacements, and b) steers are bulls (or bull calves) that have been castrated because they are not suitable to be used in breeding herds or are not needed to be used because they were selected for beef and not for being used on cows or heifers. However, heifers are still used for meat as well especially if they are unsuitable as breeding/replacement females (conformationally, temperamentally and/or genetically they are regarded as inferior animals, or have abnormal reproductive tracts). So if you come across or purchase a heifer that ends up being not what you want as a cow, you can fatten her up to butcher.

Besides, you can't even tell if a particular beef carcass comes from a heifer, steer, bull or cow anyway.

 

[Cricket]

This may not need saying, but . . . in dairy lingo, you have first calf heifers, second calf heifers, third calf heifers and then they're called a cow. You can get GREAT deals buying one of these, but it is only good (in my opinion) for hamburg. I bought a first calf heifer last year with an injured foot specifically for hamburg, and had the butcher leave out some of the more tender cuts to make beef jerky, as my beef that I raise ends up too tender for that. You couldn't even get a piece chewed off! These cows are partly on pasture and partly on corn and grass silage, and I could definitely taste the difference.

 

[Pearce Pastures]

You all are awesome. I'll be looking around this weekend and will probably have some more questions next week about what I find, I'm sure.