Would you buy these rabbits at this price??

Tre3hugger

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@Ridgetop after looking at pics of cinnamons I think you nailed it. That makes me feel a little better. Seems this lady just doesn't really know what she has. Hopefully she is right about the age etc!
 

Ridgetop

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She is very pretty. If you can eventually get a buck and like the color you might enjoy breeding them more than NZs. Cinnamons are considered a gentle and tolerant breed, more like the Californians than the NZs which can be a bit flighty. They should do just as well for you as New Zealands for meat, with the added gentler temperament. Even though this lady does not know what breed her rabbits are, this seems to be a really nice one. If she has an unrelated yung buck you might consider picking him up too. If he is as nice as she is they would be a good breeding pair.
 

Tre3hugger

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I plan on breeding her with my Chinchilla buck. I do have another cage empty though so maybe I will see what she has.:bunny She is asking $60 for her.

I am definitely not set on New Zealands. I just want a decent, consistently producing meat mom. The prettier, and calmer, the better. :)
 

Tre3hugger

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No pedigree. Was digging a bit more and it seems tort NZ is a thing. Check out this thread.
The NZ in the thread looks a lot like my perspective doe AND like cinnamons, but is apparently a NZ? The genetics stuff is way over my head.

ETA mainly the last 3 posts are of interest
 

Bunnylady

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If you breed New Zealand Blacks and New Zealand Reds together, one of the colors that you could get (after a couple of generations) is Tortoiseshell. And incidentally, though there is a breed that is called Cinnamon, they are Tortoiseshell in color. (But if you want to get really confusing, some people call a Chocolate Agouti a Cinnamon!)

But yes, it is totally possible to have pedigreed NZ's that are Tortoiseshell in color.
 
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Tre3hugger

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If you breed New Zealand Blacks and New Zealand Reds together, one of the colors that you could get (after a couple of generations) is Tortoiseshell. And incidentally, though there is a breed that is called Cinnamon, they are Tortoiseshell in color. (But if you want to get really confusing, some people call a Chocolate Agouti a Cinnamon!)

But yes, it is totally possible to have pedigreed NZ's that are Tortoiseshell in color.
THANK YOU
 

Ridgetop

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But is Tort a recognized color? Are they able to be registered? or is it one of those "new" colors that are waiting for recognition by ARBA?

3 generation pedigrees are well and good showing that the rabbit has come from 3 known generations, but if the color is not acceptable to ARBA as a recognizable color in the breed color, they cannot be considered as being acceptable.

Most species are registered right after birth and yo need registration papers that all the info on parentage to do he registration. HOWEVER, ARBA operated differently. IN order to be registered, the rabbit has to be presented to an ARBA Registrar who will check the rabbit against the breed Standard of Perfection. If the rabbit does not fit the Standard, it cannot be registered no matter how many generation of pedigreed are produced.
 

Bunnylady

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Registration is usually reserved for the creme-de-la-creme show animals, simply because it's an added expense that a meat breeder just doesn't need. Most show breeders only bother with registering a rabbit after it has won a class or two, because they don't need the expense, either (plus, a rabbit has to be at least 6 months old to be registered, and most start their show careers well before that). Even people who show will often have animals that are unshowable among their breeders, because they feel those animals have something positive to contribute to the gene pool. This is especially true in the marked breeds, and "rare" colors like BEW and Chocolate. Shoot, if Harlequin breeders had to be able to register an animal to breed it, the breed would have died out decades ago (take it from someone who has bred and shown them!)! :he Breeds like the English Spot, Rhinelander and Checkered Giant are guaranteed to produce at least a few solid-colored babies (which are definitely not showable), and while most of those will be culled, some become valued breeders because they will never produce Charlies (this is especially true in some parts of Europe, where knowingly producing animals with life-threatening genetic defects is a crime).

Unless the rules have changed since the last time I read them, the only animal that needs to be a showable color is the one actually standing on the judge's table. As long as all of the other animals on the pedigree are the same breed, and their weights, colors, and ear numbers are accurately recorded, nobody really cares what color they happen to be (as far as showing or registration is concerned*). Especially in the "pet" breeds, a lot of breeders love to see different colors in a litter, and such indiscriminate crossing often produces colors that I call "whoopses" - pretty, but not showable, and not always easy to figure out. There are some colors (like Red!) that really ought to be kept to themselves if you want to produce good ones, but not everyone does it. Some people enjoy the range of colors that result, some don't. :idunno

*Edited to add - The ARBA does have a feature of their registration system, in which the number of generations of registered rabbits on a pedigree determines what color the seal on the registration certificate is. If I remember correctly, if all animals on the registration form are registered, the seal is red, white and blue. I'd be willing to bet that no Harlequin has ever had a registration like that!
 
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TaylorBug

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If the scale doesn't have the "tare" weight feature, weigh the bucket then deduct that weight from the rabbit in the bucket weight.

The doe might be a bit unwilling because of her age. Sometimes when they approach 1 year without having had a litter does can get unwilling to breed. DH used to breed Champagne D'Argents which are notorious for does that don't want to breed. He used to load them in the car and take them for a little drive around the neighborhood. When he returned he immediately put her with the buck and usually she would lift and breed. I have heard others say they have also used that trick on unwilling does as well. Worth a shot.
I know a guy who drives rabbits half a hour to the riverbank and breeds them in the back of his truck if he has a pair that absolutely will not breed. So I guess it works 🤣
 
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