Rescue LGD persnickety...

[TMChickensLGD]

To train your pup to a leash, clip it to his collar and let him drag it

This is a great idea and one we will try. We already switched to a harness, which he doesn’t like either. I think he may be part magician...one second he’s in it and the next second out. We only put it on him whe. We take him out of his area.

I love Hair Sheep!! That will be our next project in a year or so. They are so cute and you don’t have to shear them.

I love it that you all have such a bond with your pups; more of a mutual respect. Thank you for sharing your stories.

Husband is stressing about where to put him and now I get to tell him to relax.

 

[sfgwife]

This pup might have double dews... but his face, ears and legs make me think he has a lot of lab in him. If that is the case you are gonna have interestin times with him in with birds.

The leash thing... let him drag one around with him attached to it. A long long one so he might feel “free”but really is not. When you do your chores every single day take him and his leash along with you. Do not pull and drag him. When he drops down make it a game to get him to come to you on it and praise him and find a treat he loves to keep in your pocket for when he comes. Use the same words every time you do this so he learns basic commands as well. Draggin him will only make him hate the leash more. A harness or gentle leader might work better for him than a collar.

But before any real”training”of you happens on his part... he NEEDS trust you. Spend as much time with him as possible. In his enviornment not yours might help as well. But if he doesnt trust you and yours he will never be the lgd you want/need. One day he will own you not the other way round.

 

[TMChickensLGD]

Thank you @sfgwife!

We let him drag the leash from his harness yesterday and he did better but still was hesitant. He’s not food motivated but he sure love a good jowl rubbing and praise. He loves people and man do they love him. He like no puppy I have ever seen. He doesn’t nip, jump up on people, he’s not hyper; just laid back and chill. Like a loose rubber band.

ears and legs make me think he has a lot of lab in him. If that is the case you are gonna have interestin times with him in with birds.

Lab would make me nervous. He has half heartedly chased the guineas but not caught any yet, thankfully! We are keeping much closer eye on him to try to prevent any future chasing.

The trust is building everyday and we are really focusing on consistency and just hanging out. Yesterday when we took him for a ride in the side by side he put his big ole paw on my leg . He still needs help up in but likes to “go for a ride”.

He is just full of personality and love but as stubborn as donkey! Prolly the most photogenic pup I’ve ever had. So regal.

 

[Ridgetop]

I think the reason you may have gotten the wrong idea about Livestock Guardian Dogs is that some of the literature out there dates from 30-40 years ago when these dogs were first starting to be used to control sheep predator losses on large ranches. The dogs were dropped in the middle of 1,000 or more acres with the sheep and the owner would return every week or so to leave feed in self feeders. The dogs had no socialization, and owners were warned not to socialize them or interact with them. The belief behind this was that they would bond to people instead of to the flocks. This caused some problems, in some cases when the owners returned the dogs attacked them since the dogs did not recognize them. The owners were unable to vaccinate the dogs, or supply vet assistance if they were injured. On the other hand, the dogs protected their charges against both 4 legged and 2 legged predators.

Times have changed, and now we know that LGDs need social interaction between both the owners and the flocks. Most LGDs are on small holdings like yours and ours. There are more neighbors, and more danger out there from traffic. You need to train your dogs to walk on a leash in an emergency or to restrain the dog while you are working with or moving your stock. You need to be able to interact with the dog and not get bitten. The first LGD we bought 30 years was a Shar Planinetz x Maremma out of Montana. On the day the dog was supposed to arrive at the airport the owner called to say that he had not been able to get the dog on the plane. Apparently he went out to the 6 month old pup and managed to corral him in the barn. When he went to catch him the dog bit him badly in the arm. He was going to drug the dog and then ship him to me the following day. He was a "Do Not Interact With the Dog" person because that is what everyone believed at the time. I told him I would wait another 3 months for a pup from the newborn litter. When we got that pup my kids socialized him, but we kept him in the barn with the goats and sheep. He turned out to be a great LGD even though I thought we had ruined him!

Our next 4 LGDs were Great Pyrenees we bought from a Basque sheepman in Bakersfield. Bakersfield is famous for its Basque population of sheepmen. Naturally they have Pyrenees. Mr. Ansolabahere used to take 5,000 sheep into the hills on leased government range land every year. He had 10 Pyrs and 3 other Basques and they camped out for weeks at a time in the hills. THERE ARE NO FENCES ON LEASED GOVERNMENT RANGE! His dogs ranged free, around the outlying sheep. They kept them safe by keeping all predators far away from the flock. In one case his favorite male and best dog disappeared for a month. Just as he decided that it had run afoul of a bear or cougar, an acquaintance saw an ad for a lost Pyrenees dog 50 miles away from where the dog disappeared! When he went to claim his dog the people said they had thought it was lost and wandering so picked it up and took it to a shelter. Luckily they put up a sign advertising the found dog. This is one reason why Pyrs often have a reputation as roamers. It is how they guard. All the Pyrs we had were roamers, they could not be kept inside our fencing. They could climb over a 6' chain link fence, and squeeze through a piece of stock panel missing 1 wire. That is a 8' x 12" hole. They are like cats and their loose skin and hair are an asset there.

Our current dogs are Anatolians. They are close guarding LGDs, sticking relatively close to their animals. BUT if there are too many predators too close in they may decide to leave the property to drive them back to an acceptable distance. Our bitch did this several times after the California wildfires in December. Normally she stays inside the fence. When she got out under the fence, she would come around and wait by the gate to be let back inside.

Quite frankly, I am in accord with Latestarter when he says he would be wary of letting the LGD loose among casual visitors and their pets. Right now your pup is young but when he has attained full maturity he will not want any other dogs on his turf. This is going to cause a big problem for your business if he goes after a client's dog. Especially if one of your guests' dogs decides to chase your poultry or other animals.

Along with everyone else, I suggest that you fence the 1.5 acre field for the dog and poultry Can you fence the back of your house to enclose an acre or so? This way, you can socialize the dog and still have him in a fenced area. Maybe you can relocate part of the walking path so as to avoid your fenced field. It is hard to know what to suggest without knowing your property layout.

It sounds as though you are making some progress with the leash training and bonding of the puppy. Yay!

 

[TMChickensLGD]

@Ridgetop Thank you for taking the time to share your stories.

50 miles! I believe it! Our little guy wonders around too but stays close.

It is hard to know what to suggest without knowing your property layout.

I attached another picture. You are correct that 2 of the books I read were larger areas and they did not fence. We have a livestock fence for our Llama’s (4 metal strands) that we were hoping to use as his perimeter. We mistakenly thought we could train him to stay in any fence if he knew his boundaries. We also have a 4x4 in fence for our goats but that will not keep in the chickens.

We really haven’t had any issues with guests dogs but you are right; it would only take one playful pup off a leash to chase the chicks and Scout would do his job. I’m not too worried about the people, he is super friendly and hope that we can ingrain that people are good.

We are thinking to fence in the perimeter of the small field in the back of the barn. It’s off the beaten path, it will prevent all of the deer from roaming the property but it may be the safest for all. We hope a 4 ft fence 2x4 in works. We want him, the chickens and the guests pets to be safe AND happy.

 

[goats4us]

Our LGD hated the leash when we first got her; breeder had never put a collar or leash on her. We left the collar on 24/7, but eventually switched to a harness as it gives us more control and doesn't choke her. She is not food motivated at all, but we found she is motivated to get out of her kennel. She is also very smart, so it didn't take her long to figure out that I was not going to let her out of her kennel until the leash was on. The first couple days I let her lead me around so she could get used to the leash. Once she got to know me better and trust me a little, I began to teach her a couple simple commands: sit and come. I use lots of praise. If she doesn't do something right I try to redirect her to the correct behavior rather than scold or punish. This method has been pretty successful (except for "sit", she will only do that one when she chooses,lol.) Within a couple weeks she was doing great on the leash and overall is very well behaved, though she is still only 5 months old. I celebrated, when during the second week and it was time for her to go back in her kennel, I went in it and called her and she actually came in of her own accord after only a little hesitation. Before that I had to pick her up and carry her in or haul her in with the harness, but I hated doing it. Patience and praise will get you a long ways with and LGD. It may take you a little longer before he learns to trust you and realizes he won't get shocked, but stick with it and you'll get there. As for poultry, I'm told not to expect to trust a dog with any poultry until they are at least two years old, and some are never trustworthy with them. So you have some work ahead of you there! We are also working on that. While ours isn't in with poultry, chickens are kinda silly and sometimes get in where they don't belong, so want to have her poultry-friendly.

 

[TMChickensLGD]

I stoopidly thought we could have a gentle giant roaming the property keeping predators at bay, accepting guests and their pets and keeping the chickens safe. It is discouraging to have to pen him up for his life. Especially when he likes people so much.

 

[Latestarter]

My Anatolian/Pyrenees (50/50) is equally a companion dog as well as a LGD. When I first got him, he had been living with the goats, his brothers, parents and other experienced LGDs. He was selected because I didn't have my goats at that time and therefore needed a companion capable animal as well as the potential LGD. I didn't get the goats until Mel was 2 years old. He is now staying with them but boy does he love to come inside for the AC when it's hot, for the warmth when it's blisteringly cold (used to be in CO), and just for GP when I have folks over. He knows @Devonviolet and her DH quite well and always greets them by front paws up on the fence so he can say hi face to face. There's always the possibility that your boy will be successful at ALL of the things that you wish from/for him.

They are extremely intelligent animals and are so eager to please once that trust is established. However, there are some things that are bred into them. Protection of their charges being #1. If a client's dog starts chasing or even looks cross eyed at your livestock, as an LGD, your adult dog will put himself between the potential threat and the livestock and escalate to whatever level is required to mitigate that threat. That also include any perceived threat against you or your family members. The dog owns y'all too remember... Most all of it will depend on his training.

 

[Latestarter]

Just as an afterthought, I wanted to add that some LGD's seem to be "territory" fixated where others (like mine) seem to be "possession" fixated. The wanderers IMHO are the territorial ones and what they see, they believe is theirs to protect and defend. The problem with that being as they move, their territory expands, hence the fencing requirement. Mine started out in a fenced small area and initially he learned to open a door latch and escape to travel, but once I fixed that, he never tried to escape by going over/under fences. His area is now much larger, almost an acre with sight lines covering almost 10 acres (he will have access to those over time as I repair/replace fencing/gates). He has accepted his new space and does not challenge fences over or under, so I have not installed a hot wire. I recently had several of my kids, one's wife, and grand kids here and several times they allowed Mel to blow past them to escape his fenced area. He would then "run the perimeter" fence line smelling and marking and stay ahead of me until he felt he had checked enough, at which point he would "let" me catch him and lead him back inside the fenced area. Mel seems more attached to the goats, me, and my family members as well as my other dog and my son's 2 dogs which he brings here with him. I do NOT allow any other dogs into the fenced area that he is confined within to protect. He does come into and through the fenced back yard where he can play with the other dogs.

So this is to say that your boy may be capable of learning to be possession oriented vice territory oriented.

 

[TMChickensLGD]

@goats4us

I went in it and called her and she actually came in of her own accord after only a little hesitatio

Bet that was great moment! Love when they meet & exceed our expectations. Although it has actually lured me into a false sense of security several times.