A NEW DIRECTION FOR THE OLD RAM

[Beekissed]

From their description I would think so but I don't know. I was talking to Daniel at our last Katahdin meeting but I haven't been to their farm to see them. It's Fagerman Farm in Alabama but I just looked at their web site and it doesn't have any info. Daniel does most of his PR on Facebook.

I was interested in trying a RW ram lamb but spoke to a guy that did...all the lambs resulting from it had chronic hoof problems, lameness, etc. Could have just been the breeder's focus on that RW, but it's made me a little wary, particularly with any I'd get in my area.

Not too many folks breeding hair sheep for overall excellence in my state...mostly focusing on having "registered" but not necessarily "standard". All the registered stock I've seen in my state don't resemble their supposed hair breed, neither in size nor in conformation but their breeders seem to think they can ask more money for them if they are registered. They couldn't pay me to have that stock on my land, let alone sell them to me! Their stock made the scrubs I finally purchased look like fair queens.

 

[Baymule]

A lot of the facebook groups are moving to MeWe because FB deletes posts that are selling animals, and will take the whole group down. Stupid FB.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day folks, in answer to BM. "Can you further discuss the male to female ratio because of tough range conditions? "

Several years ago i dedicated quite a deal of "thinking time " to the subject and after some considerable time the result was the following.In Australian Kangaroo the female is "always " pregnant but the next stage is controlled by the female ,it seems they evolved this way so that there had to be good feed conditions to allow the birth without risking the health of the mother.If you examine the birthing times of the large wild animals it is usually in early Spring or at the end of winter,this sorts out the strongest from the rest,in other words "survival of the fittest" and only the best go forward to reproduce.

IMO, when science interferes its at considerable risk to the livestock and/ or the farmers wallet.Nature evolved over 000's of years and set in place certain limits to ensure the future and strength of each species.If you allow Nature to determine when the ewe becomes pregnant the female will produce embryo's to suit the available conditions with an expectation that things will be OK at the time of birth .So if you interfere and "flush" in spite of the prevailing conditions don't you run the risk of problems and extra costs at the time of lambing? The question of male to female ratios is a complicated one i think and if unlike the Kangaroo the female has "no" control on the subject of cycling it stands to reason that an excess of males who are "expendable" as the best option as only the strongest will go on to reproduce,but the females hold the future of the species and an excess born in un-favorable conditions over time "weaken" the species into the future.(I am sure there is a P H D for someone into the future if they could show this to be the case,)

I remember reading in the 70's a study that suggested that if you wait until at least the second natural cycle you can improve the female outcome.I did try it in the old days with the goats and it seemed that it was the case but the outcome could easily have been factors outside of my limited trial.Perhaps it is something i could explore at a later date,just something to attempt along with the two new projects (if i live that long).

Anyway it is an interesting topic for discussion and i welcome your views...T.O.R.

 

[Beekissed]

So if you interfere and "flush" in spite of the prevailing conditions don't you run the risk of problems and extra costs at the time of lambing?

I've often questioned flushing as well. Around here the deer come into heat/mate in Oct/Nov and lamb in the spring ~May/June~when the grass is the most nutritious. In the fall they've fattened on acorns, fall fruits, and winter graze, so their bodies are ready for conception.

If we too follow these mating and lambing cycles, the available feed should be at its nutritional highest during these times and there should be no need for flushing, provided the sheep have access to a variety of natural nutrition on their range.

I've never understood having calves/lambs in Feb/March, when there is still not enough natural nutrition for good milk production and the weather is at its most harsh here. Then people complain of loss of calves/lambs to the weather conditions, they have to gather animals into barns for calving and lambing to keep them alive, supplement their diets....doesn't it all get rather costly when they could just have calves and lambs at the proper time and avoid all of that?

Salatin states his calves born at the proper time, when grass is at its most nutritious and allowed to wean naturally off their mother's milk, will fatten up and grow quickly enough to finish out for fall markets at the same time as those born earlier in the season and supplemented in order to get past being born at the wrong time of year. I would have to agree with that.

 

[Baymule]

TOR that is very interesting about the kangaroos. In nature, animals cycle their breeding and birth in circadian rhythms with the seasons. We want to control the process to suit ourselves. Just because we can, doesn’t make us any smarter.

I have 1 ewe that consistently produces ram lambs. I have 1 daughter from her and that daughter is small. I was not impressed with her lamb. She is bred to Ringo, a much better ram this go round, so we’ll see. If she doesn’t produce a better Lamb this time, then she will be sold. I would like another daughter out of that ewe, she always has twins, good sized rams that grow off good. The one I finally got is small. Maybe by breeding my ewe to Ringo, if she does have another ewe lamb, maybe it will be a better quality. Here’s hoping.

We are working to get pasture established. The summer heat narrows down the available choices of varieties that can survive and produce.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day, a couple of things to "chat" about in this post.Firstly we were setting some 1080 fox baits this afternoon i the paddock where the Aswassi /East Frisian Ewes are so far we have about a dozen lambs from the group.Considering the sparse feed they are on the lambs are doing astonishingly well and the Aswassi ones appear to be true to type and we shall retain a few rams to introduce the "extra milk gene " to some of the other groups.

The Suffolk maidens are more that half lambed now and are like "peas in a pod" as far as color and type.Its marvelous to see them barely 2 days old as they move through the Tussocks and Bracken Fern at times leaping to see above the forage and keep "mum" in sight,the ones that are a week or so old are now starting to group together low to the ground and out of the freezing breezes whilst catching some of the warm suns rays.

This year due to the cold which restricts the odor of the buried chicken wings from the feral pest people I am giving them a "dusting" of Meat meal" and a little sprinkling on the soil above to catch their attention and encourage them to consume them and if we lose a Feral Cat or two so much the better for the local bird life.A couple of years ago we were given a "tip" to give the laying hens a little each day when re-growing their feathers after winter (but not to much or you risk them getting egg bound).Because of recent wheat crop failures the "old fashion laying mash" the same lady suggested we use a 16% dairy Meal with a teaspoon of meat meal to boost the protein value of the feed.

This weekend we hope to start "banding" the un-wanted Rams from the various groups and ear tagging them to easily tell girls from boys.

In answer to some of the comments on the Australian Whites,i dont think they anyway come from a Royal White base.Next year he will go to the whole line of W. H. Dorpers because I saw some results earlier this year and they were "outstanding lambs" and the agent selling them placed them at the "top of his lamb run" on the day........T.O.R.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

G'day folks,well the news just keeps coming,the most exciting bit first.Last night i was having a look at GUMTREE in the sheep section and here is a add just a couple of hours old, which about 130 views had already taken place but on the off chance i gave the chap a ring.He had had a lot of interest from buyers close to Sydney (but it was a 6 hr drive to where the sheep were). The flock was a group of 10 "pure bred Aswassi's some with lambs at foot ,worked out a price that suited both of us and we set out at 7 am this morning to go and buy them.It was an 8 hour round trip for us ,but they are so worth it,also bought a x ewe with twins at foot.5 lambs in total "given in" 4 ewes and one ram (he will be wethered) .The ewes are first time lambing and have got great bags of milk i also think some of them may be yet to lamb (here's hoping).All round a "great day".They are in the shearing shed tonight with feed and water ,pic's tomorrow.

Some time ago we purchased some Wiltipols which came off of a mountain and the farmer had the water point and yards at the bottom,they were all supposed to be in lamb and "true to form" they started lambing yesterday,in was late in the afternoon and we could see 1 set of twins and a single.It was too late today when we got back so we will have a good look in the morning (and take some pic's).

The Suffolk's have all but finished and the lambs are looking pretty good ,here is a couple of pic's (not very good ,but i will do better in the coming days).The choc ewe is a 1st x B.H.Dorper over a Suffolk ewe.

 

[Baymule]

Congrats on the Awassi flock! What ram will you be putting over the Awassi ewes when they wean lambs and you breed them back?

I am assuming that you will breed them to a hair ram. How many generations does it take to breed out the wool?

I’m really excited for you and your new flock!

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=340015480212624

G'day folks, here are the new "little devils"....T.O.R.

 

[The Old Ram-Australia]

Here are the "new" Aswssi's. There is a short clip also but have to put it on the F B page first.They came off of "pretty hard country" and are a bit "light" under the wool,but some time on good range grazing and a little bit of grain, Alfalfa chaff and our mineral mix will soon get them in order....T.O.R.