Anemia/Redcell-Fecal UPDATE!!!!!!!

[ThornyRidgeII]

I am about to throw up my hands in disgust.. but since I care soo much about my critters especially my little goaties I am not giving up!!! Anyway this little doe that I have been nursing along now for going on 3.5 to 4 weeks is still hanging on.. I have pumped her full of wormer (3 rounds) and have also included various supplements along the way.. I have been using the redcell now for several days (4-4.5 cc) daily because her gums and eyelids are very pale.. she takes it like a trooper..along with squirts of probios.. not much of an appetite but not totally off feed.. will eat hay just not with gusto.. tonight I spent 66 bux at feed store and came home with new bags of calf manna, goat feed and alfalfa pellets.. mixed her up a concoction of goat feed, calf manna and smashed up alfalfa pellets and b.o.s.s. - she nibbled at it for a bit but did not finish the feed--just threw in handfuls of stuff with no measuring.. left it in for her to munch on tonight.. unless the chickens discover it.. she drinks well.. licks her loose minerals but is still losing condition.. her spine and hips are bony now to feel.. I am wondering what is safe and or recommended dose of red cell.. I have been using a little over the common amount I found of 6 cc for 100 lbs.. she is around 45 lbs give or take a few... any other pick me ups.. have done fort. vit. b, nutridrenches, etc.. and of course cookies.. I do find that she loves fresh pine needles.. brought her some tonight and she ate them all. still kept alone at this time due to her weakened state--plus she makes no fuss about being away from herd.. just kinda at my wits end now

 

[elevan]

This is the dosage that I use for Red Cell when treating anemia: 6 ml / 20-30# every 6-8 hours for 24 hours, then once per week until better. It can take a couple of months for them to recover from anemia.

On the deworming...did you have a fecal done? What did it show? What dewormer(s) are you using and at what dosage? Have you had a fecal check for coccidia?

 

[Roll farms]

Have you had her checked for Liver Fluke or coccidia?

 

[ThornyRidgeII]

Fecal is up next.. just trying to coordinate getting a sample to my vet (schedule not working at present to meet up with him).. as far as wormer goes I have used ivomec at 1 cc / 20lbs X 3 10 day periods.. I did pick up a bottle of the safeguard drench for goats (have not used it) and somewhat considered other type parasites such as flukes, however, my goats are not on pasture.. I know there is still small possibility of picking up something but thinking it would be small.. minimal area to graze at all in pasture- are fed only hay 2X/day... area that goats are pastured in is not a "wet" area and minimal to no shade so area stays dry. I have never had a true parasite problem in past so that is why this one stumping me. Fecal will be up. Also note goat not showing any diarrhea signs. Perfect goat berries (visually size, shape and color). Appreciate all feedback.. will keep pluggin along until something breaks for good. Worst case if I can't hook up fecal with vet in next couple days I do have some other prouducts I could throw at her including sulmet, holistic herbs/wormers, more vitamins/minerals and nutrient drenches, etc... may see if TSC has a bottle of Ivomec Plus in stock.. have never had to use that one.. what is dose and can it be given orally as well? I know it covers some fluke issues.. would prefer to keep drenching (she is good with that and actually lets me hold the drench syringe and she jsut comes up and takes it.. so as long as that is going smoothily would like to not start poking her a lot

 

[Roll farms]

If it is flukes, the ivo plus needs to be injected at the rate on the box. It'll hurt, but it'll help.

Coccidia does not always present w/ diarrhea. Our kids are raised 'dry lot' for the most part and still get it on occasion.

If you can't get the fecal pdq, I'd be tempted to go ahead and start sulmet. Keep in mind that if it goes on too long, damage done can't be reversed and the goat will never quite catch up.

Hope you figure it out.

 

[ThornyRidgeII]

Thanks for all the input.. kinda like one of those times where you feel like your throwing everything but kitchen sink to see how it works or what works.. she has been a trooper.. heck at times I have caught her laying all content chewing away on her cud.. then other times you can just tell by looking in her eyes that she feels poorly! we shall see... will try to get a fecal.

 

[20kidsonhill]

I would:

_for sure consider using another wormer, Something in a completly different family. Safegaurd 3 to 5 days in a row at 3x the label dosage, valbazene 3 days in a row, or synanthic once a week for 3 weeks. I am not as familiar with synanthic as far as dosage goes.

_ coinsider treating for coccidiosis, lots of people treat for cocci on a regular basis for prevention, and your goat isn't getting any medicated feed, making it even more likely that coccidiosis could be a problem. Sulfa-dimethoxine orally for 5 days.

_ if your goat is still anemic, I would consider getting a small bottle of iron ferrous for pigs, it isn't expensive and since it is an injectable works faster, plus you don't have to worry about over dosing the other minerals in it like you would with red cell. I often give a 2cc shot of iron in the muscle(back leg) once a week for 4 or 5 weeks, plus I use red cell daily for a week or two.

_put the goat on an antibiotic

If continues to stay off feed, drench with corn syrup, mollasses and corn oil, 1 part each, 6 to 8 ounces couple times a day for a fulll-size adult goat(100lbs) Really just a matter

once back on feed, consider increasing the protein she is getting, because of how much condition she has lost and because of the anemia she will need extra protein to help build red blood cells, and to gain muscle back. You can do this by either feeding a goat grain or adding alfalfa hay to the diet. Make feed changes slowly.

 

[Queen Mum]

Cane syrup has FAR more iron that red cell or Molasses. It has 6% by volume compared to Molasses which has 4% by volume and Red Cell has 1% by volume. It is innocuous and harmless. You can buy it at the grocery store for $3.00 a bottle.

When I have an anemic goat I give them about 1/4 cup of the stuff mixed in warm water once a day. When her gums pink up, stop giving it to her.

 

[cmjust0]

Cane syrup has FAR more iron that red cell or Molasses. It has 6% by volume compared to Molasses which has 4% by volume and Red Cell has 1% by volume. It is innocuous and harmless. You can buy it at the grocery store for $3.00 a bottle.

When I have an anemic goat I give them about 1/4 cup of the stuff mixed in warm water once a day. When her gums pink up, stop giving it to her.

Iron is measured by weight, as in kilograms, grams, milligrams, etc. -- not by volume. Each fluid ounce (vol) of Red Cell contains 300mg (weight) of iron. I did the math according to the label, and it turns out that 1fl oz of Red Cell weighs 31,893.2mg, 300 of which is iron. So, by weight -- as iron must be measured -- Red Cell is 0.94% iron. A hair less than 1%.

What I found about blackstrap molasses is that each 2tbsp weighs 13.67g and contains 2.39mg of iron. That's 13,670mg of blackstrap containing 2.39mg of iron. By weight, that's 0.0175%, roughly. Not quite two one hundredths of a percent. Obviously, 2/100ths vs 94/100ths puts it faaaaaaaar lower in iron than Red Cell..

Cane syrup?...not sure exactly what's meant by 'cane syrup' but my understanding of syrup/molasses in general is that blackstrap is the most vitamin and mineral dense of all. The lighter they are, the more sugary and less nutrionally dense they are. Perhaps you know of some other type I'm not aware of, but like I said...as syrup goes, I'm pretty sure blackstrap is the most nutritionally valuable.

Something else to consider is that, when you read up on what *kind* of iron is in each, I think what you'll find is that the iron in blackstrap isn't actually all that bioavailable, whereas the iron in Red Cell is chelated iron -- a very, very bioavailable form.

 

[Queen Mum]

Volume is the liquid measure of the dose, ie, number of cc's. The weight of the iron contained there in is where the percentage figures come from. The three liquids (by coincidence) are fairly equal in liquid weight. But also have equal weights of iron contained therein.

Red Cell has 150 mg iron per tablespoon. (14 cc) >1% by volume

Cane syrup (Steens) has 1260 milligrams per tablespoon. (14 cc) 6% by volume

Molasses has 2% iron by volume, 2% Calcium by volume and 2% Magnesium by volume (It has roughly 300 mg. iron per tablespoon.)

Reading up on cane syrup it is bioavailable, and while not nutritionally "dense" as you say, it is easily absorbed. The iron in Red cell is partially derived from it. In other words, for a quick source of iron, Cane syrup is a plus.

You can supplement with Red cell because it has lots of other things (vitamins, minerals, etcetera,) but in fact, if your goal is to give iron and give it fast, I would go with cane syrup as a first line of defence and follow up with the red cell on a daily basis. One reason for giving the iron in Cane syrup is that it is partially bound to the sugar and is easily digested and quickly absorbed. Second, you can give smaller quantities and avoid the possible diarhea. Third, it's a cheap source of iron.