Another newbie question -- who'd a thunk?

[CESpeed]

I visit a cattle ranch earlier and the gentleman was very opinionated about breeds and I'm very loath to discount what he said because he has been in the cattle business for a while but by the same token he is in the cattle business - his goal is more geared towards marketability/saleability of the catle rather than for personal enjoyment.

He is very anti-Hereford but they are the only breed that so far has made it on both "good for a 1st timer" and "best beef" list. His only reasoning he was liked liked angus better because they sell easier. I am just trying to get as many opinions/experiences as possible.

I'm still researching and reading various websites. Any comment is appreciated.

Do any Hereford breeders have a varying opinion?








edited after poster went to school and "learnded" good English.

 

[redtailgal]

x

 

[Snowhunter]

Strange enough, the market at the sale we go to, the good bodied healthy lookin cows go for more no matter the color. We've sent Charolais, Charolais/Angus, Herford/Charolais, Simmental/Charolais and a few pure Angus to the sale and the prices were all the same, give or take a few dollars.

Now, the crummy sick lookin cows usually go for a few hundred less, regardless of breed/color

 

[herfrds]

A lot of old timers that switched to black cattle did so due to numerous problems the Hereford breed had, bad feet, bad bags, cancer eye and prolapses. Looking through our herd records to go clear back into the 70's it was marked why each cow was shipped and those were listed. That is probably what this guy remembers.
What is not mentioned is these same problems are in the black cattle too, but they also now have a genetic disorder. I cannot remember what they are right now, maybe WildRose remembers.

Another reason so many want the black hide is the AAA started the CAB and really pushed it and made it seem like unless it had a black hide the beef isn't worth eating.

A lot of Hereford breeders changed their breeding and started to get rid of the bloodlines that caused a lot of these problems.
As for us we still get the odd cow that gets cancer on the eye and every once in awhile we get a heifer or cow that prolapses, we ship the prolapsers along with any daughters.
No longer have the bad feet or the bad bags.

We did try a black bull. First year he did pretty good. Second year spent most of his time in the corner of the pasture and bellowed trying to fight our other bulls who ignored him. The next spring he charged one of our steers and shoved him through part of the corral busting a bunch of planks,
Kept him in the corral that spring to breed the heifers. Out of 10 he only bred 4. He tried to bluff charge me and got the business end of a pitchfork in his nose. Tried with DH and got a steel fence post laid across the top of his head.

Never bought another one.

Neighbors are black hide breeders and one of their bulls got out. Crossed our place, went through 2 of our fences and ended up 6 miles from their place.

 

[jhm47]

Herffds is right. Angus have some genetic disorders. One is Contractural Arachnodactyly, another is Arthrogryposis Multiplex, one more is Neuropathic Hydrocephalus, and Osteopetrosis. All are recessive, and the AAA has been doing DNA testing on many bulls to eliminate these disorders. The major AI studs routinely test all their bulls for both of them, and I don't know of any bulls that are in service that are carriers. There are probably a few bulls being used naturally that are carriers, but I have not seen any lately. The bulls that originally were carriers were quickly identified and they and their offspring were disqualified, and most were culled.

Almost all breeds have some genetic defects. Herefords also had/have dwarfism, and several others that Herfrds would be more knowledgeable than I.

As to disposition, ALL breeds have their good ones and their bad ones. I cringe when I'm asked to AI a bunch of Salers, Limousin or Charolais. Some Angus are also quite nasty, but they are getting better. Angus are now giving EPD's on docility, and they are quite accurate. As a whole, Herefords are usually quite good. So are Shorthorns and Simmentals. But, as I said, there are bad ones in every breed.

 

[CESpeed]

My inner rebel is starting to emerge. With so many other breeds to pick from, I'm in the "anything but Angus" space. Not anything but I'm definitely wanting to not go the Angus route.

 

[herfrds]

What surprised us was we kept getting told that the black baldies would bring more at the sale ring.
Nope.
We got paid the same as for our straight Herefords.

Yes jhm the dwarfism gene is one. I remember reading a story about a Hereford bull that was born pure white, no he was not an albino. The breeder kept him and bred him. He throws a 50-50 white calves and standard Hereford markings calves.

There are 2 top Hereford breeders in our State I will never buy from. They have done nothing to get rid of the prolapse in their herds. No I will not name names on this board or anywhere else.
Yes we bought some of their stock. Not one head remains here.

jhm I was at a bull sale a couple years ago and they were selling Angus bulls and in the sale catalog every bull that had been tested and showed one of those genetic defects was marked and listed.
No I didn't buy one, just there to look.

The AHA is behind the times and have changed things so much I know a breeder who has dropped his special rating due to cost, but he still raises some good hard working bulls.

 

[jhm47]

An awful lot depends on the breeder of the cattle. Some are in it to make a "quick buck", and don't bother to cull as stringently as they should. Others are dedicated to improving the breed, and cull ruthlessly. The trick is to figure out who is who.

 

[WildRoseBeef]

What is not mentioned is these same problems are in the black cattle too, but they also now have a genetic disorder. I cannot remember what they are right now, maybe WildRose remembers.

From the CattleToday site I remember a lot of concern about Curly Calf Syndrome. And of course the others that JHM mentioned.

And as was mentioned before, Angus in the US seems to be more about a popularity contest and "more bang for your buck" than an animal that is good for the less serious cattle-folk like yourself, CESpeed.

Not many Angus cattle from where I come from. Angus take up 40% of the total cattle population in Canada, but from my vantage point and from what I've seen that we've bought as feeders in the past, it seems like only 20% of the cattle herd in the more northern parts of Alberta is comprised of Angus. I see more Charolais, GElbvieh, Simmental and Red Angus than Black Angus. But that's just my opinionated view.

 

[jhm47]

Curly calf is another name for Arthrogryposis.

And---I have several customers who raise red cattle, and they market a lot of their bulls and heifers into Canada as breeding stock. Canada doesn't seem to be quite as color conscious as the USA.