Back with Questions about Dotti and kids

[Louannx]

So, Dotti FF in mid November, some of you are aware of the long story. I pulled Coco a brown doeling and Brawn a white buckling. They will be a month in two days. By almost two weeks old, I realized Coco was knocking Brawn off the teat. So for the last couple of weeks, I go out and put one on each teat for 15-20 minutes 3 times a day to make sure Brawn gets his share.

I have cameras setup, so I see everything. Brawn is always on the teat, so I thought everything was good. Last week, they were 3 weeks old and Brawn looked bad. He would stand for 20 minutes or so hunched up several times a day (I thought, thats weird) and I really noticed how sunken in the sides he was. So I weighed them, which I should of done at birth. Brawn weighed 10.6 and Coco was 18.4. I had a homemade sweater on both of them so I did not notice. As I stared at him, I realized he looked barely any bigger than the day he was born, how did I not notice how much Coco was twice the size of him now.

So five days ago, I treated them both with selenium paste, started them both on Corid for coccidia (today was day 5). I have given Brawn 2 doses of MultiDrench, an enima, and I supplement him 3 times a day with Cows milk mixed with just a little of Goat replacer to sweeten (he takes about 6-8 ounces thoughout whole day) and still continues to nurse on Dotti while I now for the last few days, give him his own private session with her while keeping Coco away. They also get alfalfa and regular hay, free choice along with a few bites of grain they will eat. He is doing better as far as not hunching up his back and has never looked sickly, but still not fat like Coco. Next weekend they both will be getting their worming and CD&T shots. Just trying to space these medications out.

What do you think I am missing here. Those that are familiar with me and my story know that I am a newby. I am concerned because of his growth is not at the level of Coco's. But again, he is lively, energic, talkative, alert. Can goats be runts? I will weigh him again later, but just looking at him, I'm not expecting too much gain.
http://www.corid.com/

 

[Louannx]

 

[B&B Happy goats]

@Goat Whisperer just got power back on after snow storm...i think her and SBC were helping you with advice, I have ND goats, yes some can be smaller but i would either pm them with a message or wait a little for them to catch up with life, animals and BYH, ...best of luck with your kids

 

[Louannx]

Thank you @B&B Happy goats.

 

[Mini Horses]

You might try penning Coco, allowing her to nurse but, not at will. At same time leave Brawn with mom to nurse at will. For a week. Weigh both first, then weigh at end of week. Hopefully it will put a little growth on him. She won't lose from this, obviously a guzzler! Goat milk will have more fat in it than cow, so if buying supplement look for that...or milk mom & use that for extra bottle. Be sure he is being allowed to nurse!

I had a doe kid trips last pring … great mom, not FF. #3 was born after other two had been cleaned & nursed. While she cleaned, loved on and cared for #3, she would not let her nurse. Would not fight me when I placed her on teat, stood nice, just not approach by kid & stand. Others she nursed. I used her milk and bottle fed that little girl, she was with other two & mom all the time. WEIRD!

However it works, just keep milk going in!

My trips -- buckling sold, 2 doelings still with mom, both weaned, all three together and mom cares for both.

 

[Baymule]

Don't beat yourself up over this. In time, you will learn to have a sharp eye for the little things. Observation is a powerful tool in keeping your animals healthy. Easy to say, harder to learn, but you already observed something amiss and have taken steps to correct it.

 

[Louannx]

Ok, I believe we are on the uphill again. Brawn has gained 2 1/2 pounds this week and coco gained 4. It has been a challenging week with Brawn on the bottle supplementing. He would only take an ounce or two up to 3-4 times a day. I give him the bottle and afterward I put him on Dotti to finish him off. So in all I would supplement him about 6-8 ounces a day.

Well, I found a recipe to give him with a gallon of milk, butter milk, yogurt and evaporated milk and a little of the land of lakes goat replacer to sweeten. I do not know if he has learned the bottle or likes the recipe but he drunk about 12-13 ounces throughout the whole day plus being on Dotti. He looks more filled out and not starved looking. I am feeling hopeful again.

I am wondering if maybe he is not a strong sucker. He has always been on Dotti since birth way more than Coco so I could not figure out what was going on with him and his weight. Coco is a strong sucker, she latches on and goes at it just guzzling. With the bottle, he takes it from the side of his mouth and cannot suck hard from the front of it. Maybe that has been the problem?

 

[Mini Horses]

He may have a problem in his mouth, tongue tied, etc. If he had a pallet issue he would have milk regurgitation from mouth or nose. It can happen. If he will take the bottle keep giving it. Glad he is doing better !

 

[Louannx]

I have made the decision to pull both kids off of Dotti. They will be 5 weeks old in two days. I feel like I have become crazy goat lady over the last couple months. Dotti has had teeth marks above her teats were it joins with the udder. I have been treating it with peppermint oil and Vitamin E, I guess this started when they were a week or two old. It would look bad and then I would get it good again. I guess as they are growing it is getting harder to heal it back up. I started using Vetericyn and that helped but the other day she would not let either of them nurse and she kicked Brawn right in the face. So I got ahold of her and looked up under her udder and one teat is terrible. They nawled on her good and it was bloody about an inch wide right up under their were it is hard to see. It is both kids, they both had blood on their face, or it is Coco trying to take it from Brawn and they are fighting.

They have always been rough and I am so thankful I am not a goat! I separated them and Dotti and the kids screamed for hours. They were separated by a fence and could see each other. So I came up with an idea to make her a goat bra so she could still be with them and to go ahead and just dry her up and I started giving her sage tea a couple times a day. We would go cold turkey and her udders were full. I believe Dotti's health is more important and I do not want her to get that mastitis or gangrene.

Well everything went good for two days, goats were happy. I came and fed the kids 4 times a day (they have bit through 4 nipples already on the bottles. These are supposed to be heavy duty). I felt comfortable so I went to town and when I got back, Dotti's cloth was off and they done drained one udder and the other was still full and bleeding bad. It looked really BAD. She was all lopsided, so I got her down on her side and I gently milked that one out half way. I sprayed her down with iodine and completely separated them again. They are all three screaming again, so I go out and pet Dotti and talk softly to her and love on her a bit. They will all lay down together at the fence and Dotti looks heartbroken.

Today her udder looks 80% better and is scabbing back over. The sage tea must be working because her udder is not full and tight. She is walking and getting around comfortably and does not look like in pain like before, she looks depressed and wants her babies. But she is looking good. Am I doing the right thing? Has anyone else had kids that just nawled on their mom and had to be removed?

I am bottle feeding them 4 times a day along with goat developer and Calf manna grain. Hay and alfalfa hay, vitamins b complex, minerals. I did not want to bottle feed the kids and tried everything to make this work. Other people say they have goats and leave them in the pasture and dont tend to them and the goats pretty much take care of themselves and their babies. I have the high maintenance goat and I just love her so much. Me and her have been through so much, I am just so exhausted.

Brawn is doing really well and really starting to feel out. He is looking really nice and has a good tummy going now. He is a side bottle drinker and I have tried repeatedly to correct this, but it is his mouth. Coco is a natural but stubborn.

Some family said I should just let them be, what did goats do before owners? Well I'm not going to knowingly mistreat any animal and I will always find a way to ease it's suffering. Anybody ever been through this?

 

[Louannx]