Bottle Jaw

[goatboy1973]

I have had my girls 2 years now. I have wormed all of them once, and I believe two of them twice (possibly 3 times). This one that has the bottle jaw now has been wormed twice since she entered my herd in June of '12. She also is the only one that got mites last winter, and now the only one (so far) that has had this bottle jaw. I tend to wonder if there's something up with her... She was only 6 mos old or so when I got her.

Maybe you should look at culling her. Parasite resistance can be a highly heritable trait. If you breed her there's a moderate chance her offspring will be ill adapted at resisting internal parasites also. Structural correctness, great pedigrees, perfect breed phenotype, and high yielding production and all other desirable traits have their place; however, if a producer has to continually battle parasites, how valuable is this animal in regards to productivity, and why would a producer want to add these genetics to the respective breed? If this a pet, different story, but if this is a registered animal would it be an injustice to breed this animal and either add or perpetuate such maladaptive genetics all in the name of selling a great blood line?

 

[newbiekat]

Ha, that makes complete sense now that I see them. I made them a little bigger than golf balls. I wrapped them in sweet feed, and then left it. She went back and forth between the sweet feed and the alfalfa for a while, and seemed to pick around the oatmeal ball. I left her for a little while, came back and it was gone! The lump seems smaller today... Don't know if that's being optimistic or what, I hope it really is getting smaller!

I didn't put the Probios into the ball, I got her to take it... not without a fight of course!

Dry lot... hmm.... I do have a little area that I try to do my own separation type thing... I can do that... Would putting her alone cause her more stress? Also, would it be such a good idea to put her baby in with her?

Copper.. hmm... I have no idea honestly. How would I find that out? I am feeding them Golden Blend minerals. According to the label it looks like its got 8-12 ppm of Copper?

I plan on adding the kelp to the minerals once they finish off what they've got now.

 

[newbiekat]

Goatboy- I see your point and you're probably right, it all makes sense... but she really is my pet. We raise Registered Nubians, and she is a boer... with terrible teats... and apparently, now, this poor resistance to parasites... but... she's my baby... I don't plan on keeping any of her offspring, but she has been a good mother so far, and a sweetheart of a goat... DH tells me we should get rid of her, but I have a hard time doing it... I just want her to live fat and happy in my pasture...

 

[goatboy1973]

When you first got her did you do a quarantine and run fecals for counts? All goats have a minimum 30 day quarantine. We run a fecal within a few days of them coming as to allow a bit of a bloom if there will be one. Run for and EPG count ... if parasites then those are targeted. We repeat fecals and monitor the reduction A) to see the effectiveness of the wormer and B) to continue the program to ensure they are "clean" and have a consistant 0 count.

This way we can target if we find a goat to not be particularly hardy.

We also do a quarantine. We vaccinate, deworm, hoof trim, etc... any new animal to the herd as if this has never been done to the animal (we never take anyone's word for anything; been burnt too many times before). The stress of transporting alone, not to mention the interruption of regular activities of daily living, and change of surrounding and adjustment of pecking order within a herd by introducing a new member can cause an exacerbation of internal parasites and general lower threshold of immunity for the animal. For this very reason, we choose to deworm along with re-vaccinating and all other animal health precautions. A parasite load can look within normal range on a fecal but they can drastically increase in an animal that is dealing with the stress of adjustment to a new home.

 

[goatboy1973]

Goatboy- I see your point and you're probably right, it all makes sense... but she really is my pet. We raise Registered Nubians, and she is a boer... with terrible teats... and apparently, now, this poor resistance to parasites... but... she's my baby... I don't plan on keeping any of her offspring, but she has been a good mother so far, and a sweetheart of a goat... DH tells me we should get rid of her, but I have a hard time doing it... I just want her to live fat and happy in my pasture...

I have one such goat in my herd named Miracle. She was born on my farm and will take her last breath on my farm. I had a long winded post about her a few months back. I thought she was frozen to death just after being born to a very young momma that was not even supposed to be bred and never showed 1 sign of pregnancy. Momma and her twin sister died during birth and I had the hole dug to bury all 3 goats and then noticed Miracle blink her eyes. Long story short my Nursing/ EMT skills kicked in and I set up an ICU/ nursery in my basement and with warm IV's, stomach tubing colostrum, and initial round of cardiac drugs (expired human epinephrine and atropine), managed to save her and now she is 8 yrs. old and produced nearly 17 kids to date and due to kid twins any day now. She has been problematic with her hooves and parasite resistance, bullies all the other goats, unlatches gates with her horns, and has kids that share her same faults. She is the biggest pet though and is a very good mother, and produces bunches of milk. All her kids have either been sold as pets or meat kids but never breeding stock. Miracle is like our ambassador as she greets all human visitors. Every farm needs a "Miracle".

 

[newbiekat]

Well guys... It looks like her lump is COMPLETELY GONE!!

Yesterday was her last iron shot for the every other day routine. I was going to give her another iron shot next week... Do I still need to? Also, what about the B12? How long should I keep giving that? And how long should I give her the oatmeal balls?

Oh! And what about the Ivermectin Plus? I gave the first dose of regular Ivermectin on Saturday, so should I give three more doses of the Plus or just two more?

 

[goatboy1973]

I would continue with all meds for the determined amount of time. This is like a bacterial infection in that if you quit the full regimen of antibiotic when you feel better, only the weak bacteria are killed and the more serious bacteria are still active and if they multiply you get what's called a superinfection. Same goes with the internal parasites (worms). If it were my animal I would go ahead and give the Ivomec, the iron, the B-12 etc... You need to make sure as many parasites are eliminated and as much of RBC building meds are given to give your animal the best chances of bouncing back from this condition. Good luck!

 

[goatboy1973]

Well guys... It looks like her lump is COMPLETELY GONE!!

Yesterday was her last iron shot for the every other day routine. I was going to give her another iron shot next week... Do I still need to? Also, what about the B12? How long should I keep giving that? And how long should I give her the oatmeal balls?

Oh! And what about the Ivermectin Plus? I gave the first dose of regular Ivermectin on Saturday, so should I give three more doses of the Plus or just two more?

I forgot to add, congrats on getting her through the bottle jaw.Newbiekat, the iron and B-12 kinda work together to help her build her blood components back up, namely the RBC (red blood cells). The RBC's carry oxygen throughout the body. Oxygen is attracted to the iron in the blood and B-12 helps in the production of RBC's. B-12 is also a good source of energy so you could give her this on a bi-weekly or weekly basis indefinitely without worrying about an overdose because the body excretes through the urine what it doesn't use of the B-12. Some humans (elderly) get prescribed B-12 every 2 weeks on a continual basis. So, if she is an older goat, and prone to getting parasite infestations, you might consider a monthly or every 2 week dose of B-12 just as a preventative measure.

 

[newbiekat]

Awesome. Thank you so much!

Just to clarify, the Ivermectin Plus... Should I give two more doses, or three being the first dose was the regular Ivermectin?

 

[goatboy1973]

If it were my goat, I would give give her 2 more doses and see what her fecal or her FAMACHA looks like. The only difference in the regular Ivomec and the Ivomec Plus is the addition of Clorsulon which kills liver flukes and the Clorsulon is shown to be not very effective when administering to caprines (goats). Liver flukes are usually only a problem in the Deep South though.