elevan
Critter Addict ♥
Squirrelgirl88 said:
Breeding for Color Question
- Thread starter Squirrelgirl88
- Start date
SDGsoap&dairy
Loving the herd life
I have a solid buck and he has produced solid kids. It's not totally random- you will certain increase your chances of producing solid kids if you have two solid parents. But it's not guaranteed because color is not specified in the breed standard. Breeders don't routinely breed for color, they breed for mammary systems, conformation, production ability, etc. Yes there are people out there breeding pets exclusively for blue eyes and flash, but that's certainly not the case with the majority interested in improving the breed. So each animal will have a variety of colors and patterns in its pedigree. This may be OT as far as this thread is concerned, but I think it's important to note that if you're breeding for color alone then you aren't breeding for anything more than pets. If pets are what you're after- qualities such as ease of keeping and temperament are good selection factors. IMO they far outweigh the importance of color. I love all the gorgeous colors and variety of patterns I see in the breed, but it's just the icing on the cake.
MrsDieselEngineer
The Goat Lady
Does anyone know if there is a color test for goats like they do with horses? Horse colors are so much easier when you know if the sire or dam has a dominant or recessive color gene. LOL Goats just seem to be all over the place unless you're breeding Saanans, Boers, or the like.
- Thread starter
- #24
Squirrelgirl88
Loving the herd life
We do not show our goats and while I understand breed standards and why they exist, I am primarily breeding only for milk production for my family. I have registered the girls with ADGA only to make the process of selling the kids easier and maybe more profitable since we have to breed to get milk. My goats are my pets, and they get to live out their lives here rather the milk production is record breaking or not. I'm not going to choose a poor producing doe just because she has blue eyes or I like her markings. That being said, if two does have equal conformation, mammary systems etc., I'm going to pick the cutest one!n.smithurmond said:
Livinwright Farm
Goat Fancier
If not yet, I am sure someone will come out with one...MrsDieselEngineer said:
I know someone told me(within the year) that "there is currently no DNA testing for goats to know what breeds are in a mixed breed anima"l, however, if you read the ALBC page for Arapawa goats, it mentions that they have done DNA testing on the breed and have found that the specific markers in the DNA of Arapawa is so close to what was the Old English goat, that it is highly possible that Arapawa are the lone reminants of the Old English(thought to be extinct).
So, anything is possible.
Smithurmond: There are cases of breeders who are able to successfully produce goats with blue eyes and/or flash that also have good conformation, production levels, and mammary systems. It just takes finding just the right combination of goats to pull it off.
As you well know, Rosasharn has been able to produce flashy goats that also have splendid conformation, production levels, and mammary systems. So has Stonewall, Goodwood, Dragonfly, Proctor Hill, and NCPromisedLand... all of which have multiple *M's and multiple ARMCH's in & from their herds.
I may be wrong, but I don't think anyone here is breeding for coloration alone. Any of the members here that I have gotten to know are all for improving the breed.
As to the breeding you mentioned of the light buckskin doe to the heavily moonspotted classic buckskin buck... in any animal color genetics that I have seen, that is quite possibly what cause the "chocolate silver" buckskin to come to the surface. The direct to direct will commonly cause recessive to come out... Personally, I would term the coloration inverted buckskin or red silver. Inversion(red/black to black) creates blue in birds(IE: blue laced red wyandottes) or rodents(blue/lilac agouti gerbils), but goats' color genes operate slightly differently where red is the more common occurance.
It could come from either side, I just mentioned that in my experience it has been the males that determine the coloration. Regardless of where the color comes from in who's herd, I feel it is important to have a picture pedigree in addition to the standard pedigree. It definitely helps to have some idea of what may be lurking & waiting to come out(good and bad).
Livinwright Farm
Goat Fancier
DittoSquirrelgirl88 said:We do not show our goats and while I understand breed standards and why they exist, I am primarily breeding only for milk production for my family. I have registered the girls with ADGA only to make the process of selling the kids easier and maybe more profitable since we have to breed to get milk. My goats are my pets, and they get to live out their lives here rather the milk production is record breaking or not. I'm not going to choose a poor producing doe just because she has blue eyes or I like her markings. That being said, if two does have equal conformation, mammary systems etc., I'm going to pick the cutest one!n.smithurmond said:
I now make sure to see pedigrees and get visuals of parents and grand parents whenever possible, and if all looks as it should then I start selecting which is more "WOW!" If at all possible I like having substance & flash... otherwise, no insult to those who raise them, but I might as well just raise Saanens. Of course, they do make animal safe hair colorants..... hmm... 
Just joking, I don't believe in dying any animal's hair, unless it is after it has been removed from the animal.SDGsoap&dairy
Loving the herd life
You don't have to tell me this- I HAVE Rosasharn animals in my herd (although I dare you to try to find any blue eyed animal with the Rosasharn herd name.) Beautiful colors are a given with the breed- of course you're going to have all kinds of flash in successful herds. It's not as if by selecting for something else you're going to eliminate the wide variety of colors in the gene pool. Arguing that successful show herds must have selected for color just because they have bred flashy goats doesn't make any sense. NDs are colorful goats! When you select for mammary systems, conformation, production, ect- you're going to get colorful goats! It would be worded more appropriately, 'Rosasharn has been able to produce goats that have splendid conformation, etc... and they HAPPEN to be flashy.' Yes, it's part of the deal with ND and one of the things I love about the breed.Livinwright Farm said:
If the OP or other folks reading the thread aren't breeding for color then that information need not apply, but I stand behind the value in pointing it out. I'm not criticizing anyone's program. I'm merely addressing the very title and subject matter of this thread, "Breeding for Color."
that's*satyrical
Loving the herd life
OOOhhhh, was that a dare?? I'm off on a wild goose chase now for a Rosasharn with blue eyes. Not because it actually matters that much to me, just because it's a dare... lol
I'm off on a wild goose chase now for a Rosasharn with blue eyes. Not because it actually matters that much to me, just because it's a dare... lol 
lilhill
Loving the herd life
n.smithurmond said:
helmstead
Goat Mistress
I stand behind what Nicki is trying to get across here. I don't CARE what color my goats are, really. They could be yellow polkadotted purple...as long as they milk and show. "Color Breeders" are a bit of a joke in the goat world (and the horse world, for that matter). I get emails all the time, "I want to place a reservation on a blue eyed, moonspotted, polled goat," and it makes me gag. It's BLING. Yes, I'm excited when I get something pretty, but that cannot be the goal. If I'm TRYING to produce that elusive blue eyed, polled, moonspotted thing...I've taken my eyes of the prize.
As far as color goes...certain things are *generally* true. Black and red are *generally* dominant. The agouti locus is *generally* dominant. Patterns, such as buckskin, cous, chamoisee, moonspots and pinto markings are of varying dominance depending on the parentage, and as Nicki said - sometimes you have to go WAY back.
One can speculate expected colors on kids - but it's nothing like a horse where you breed a chestnut to a cream and get a palomino (and even that is not so straightforward).
My red buck, you would think, would produce mostly reds since red is dominant. I think he's produced 3 or 4 true reds for us. He mostly produces golds and buckskins! With the occasional black, and the occasional heavy broken pattern.
My taupe bezoar produces a ton of gold, and then chamoisees. He also throws in the occasional white.
My buckskin buck has produced almost all buckskin kids - I would have thought he was homozygous, except he's also allowed the doe's color to come through once, producing a gold.
A black agouti buck I once had threw a huge percentage of black agouti kids.
I have black does that have NEVER produced a black kid, but those doe kids that are colored tend to produce black offspring that mirror the granddam. Chocolate carriers tend to not often reproduce the color, but it skips a generation. My white doe hasn't ever produced a white kid. Heavy moonspotted does tend to produce solid kids LOL and pintos are just hit and miss. My dalmation doe cloned herself once, with twins that were crazy colorful and didn't look anything like the sire.
Hit and miss. That's what's fun about it.
As far as color goes...certain things are *generally* true. Black and red are *generally* dominant. The agouti locus is *generally* dominant. Patterns, such as buckskin, cous, chamoisee, moonspots and pinto markings are of varying dominance depending on the parentage, and as Nicki said - sometimes you have to go WAY back.
One can speculate expected colors on kids - but it's nothing like a horse where you breed a chestnut to a cream and get a palomino (and even that is not so straightforward).
My red buck, you would think, would produce mostly reds since red is dominant. I think he's produced 3 or 4 true reds for us. He mostly produces golds and buckskins! With the occasional black, and the occasional heavy broken pattern.
My taupe bezoar produces a ton of gold, and then chamoisees. He also throws in the occasional white.
My buckskin buck has produced almost all buckskin kids - I would have thought he was homozygous, except he's also allowed the doe's color to come through once, producing a gold.
A black agouti buck I once had threw a huge percentage of black agouti kids.
I have black does that have NEVER produced a black kid, but those doe kids that are colored tend to produce black offspring that mirror the granddam. Chocolate carriers tend to not often reproduce the color, but it skips a generation. My white doe hasn't ever produced a white kid. Heavy moonspotted does tend to produce solid kids LOL and pintos are just hit and miss. My dalmation doe cloned herself once, with twins that were crazy colorful and didn't look anything like the sire.
Hit and miss. That's what's fun about it.
