CL... what exactly is it?

[newbiekat]

We have had 2 abscesses in our herd that looked suspicious- one ping-pong ball sized one under the ear of a goat (we think it is from a puncture wound from the welded wire fence he tore up :/) and another in the location of a vaccine. Both were drained and the contents sent off for testing which ended up not being CL. I hope the same is for you.

Would you happen to know what the contents of your abscesses looked like? Was it thick?

 

[Green Acres Farm]

Would you happen to know what the contents of your abscesses looked like? Was it thick?

The first was done by our vet and I didn't see it. The doe's we thought was probably from a vaccine and a lot smaller, so we did it. It was a thick substance, but was not nearly as big as some I've seen online. It was a lump about the size of a quarter.

 

[babsbag]

I had a buck with a softball size lump and the pus was so thick the vet couldn't get any out at all. She had to lance the abscess and collect it that way. He came from a CL negative heard at 8 weeks old so I wasn't too worried but we had it tested anyways. I wish I still had the picture of it, it was thick that it looked like worms coming out of it. It was not CL

Have you ever had an abscess drain on your land that you know of? If she ends of positive I would get a blood test on everyone else and go from there. There is a vaccine for it. They will test positive after that but it should prevent the lumps and the spreading of the disease.

 

[greybeard]

Life span of CL bacteria in the soil is generally thought to be several months as opposed to years like some organisms are, so I wouldn't be too concerned about reintroducing stock to an area after a short period of time.

It happens in cattle, but is relatively rare.
One of the reasons it is more prevalent in goats and equines, as opposed to cattle is that most people that run cattle have them on a lot more pasture/animal than people with horses and goats. Horses tend (especially in small hobby farm settings) to eat the forage right down to the ground, with their forage supplemented daily with hay and grain. They're more likely to ingest dirt as they eat any green shoot that pops up.
There are separate vaccines available for both goats and sheep, but as I understand it, once an animal is vaccinated, the serulogic screening is no longer valid--vaccinated herds will test positive.

(I see I repeated some of what Babsbag already said)

 

[Southern by choice]

Life span of CL bacteria in the soil is generally thought to be several months as opposed to years like some organisms are, so I wouldn't be too concerned about reintroducing stock to an area after a short period of time.

The incubation period can take up to 3 months. As far as soil contamination it can live up to 8 months however there is a reason the "years" idea came about... mostly because many animals have internal so it is perpetual infecting over long periods of time.
There are some vets that believe if you have goats it is inevitable- at some point you will get CL.
There are some people that have culled hard based on lumps, isolated animals to prevent spread, and some even moved to new land only to have CL show up in the herd yet again.

Yearly testing doesn't solve the issue but at least starting with clean stock or if you have CL and watch titers it can go along way in improving your herd and hopefully - eventually eradicating the disease over time from your goats.

 

[newbiekat]

Have you ever had an abscess drain on your land that you know of? If she ends of positive I would get a blood test on everyone else and go from there. There is a vaccine for it. They will test positive after that but it should prevent the lumps and the spreading of the disease.

I have never had an abscess burst on our land, and prior to now my goats have blood tested negative for CL. We have had lumps before, but we have always associated it with the vaccination spot. I have looked into the vaccine, and know that if I do vaccinate for it, they will test positive from then on out, but from what I have read on the vaccine it doesn't seem to be fully effective, about 60% success rate.

I was planning on getting them blood tested, but I need to wait for the incubation period (3 mos like SBC said) before I do that. They have always tested negative before now.

There are some vets that believe if you have goats it is inevitable- at some point you will get CL.
There are some people that have culled hard based on lumps, isolated animals to prevent spread, and some even moved to new land only to have CL show up in the herd yet again.

That's what I'm struggling with right now. The vet said the results came back "inconclusive". He said that because he aspirated the lump instead of culturing it, that's part of the reason why the results came back inconclusive??? I dunno, he didn't seem stressed about the CL because it's so prevalent, I'm guessing. Hubby was really ticked because if it was CL and it burst on our farm, they did NOTHING to prevent it. Fortunately, it hasn't burst and the vet basically said, well since its inconclusive and because of the location of the abscess I'd say it's safe to say its not CL. UHHHH WHAT?? So, basically we are waiting for the incubation period to pass, then we will do our usual CL blood testing and go from there. The part I struggle with, is, like you said SBC, it's almost inevitable that you WILL get it on your farm at some point, so what do I do if it is positive? I've read everything from just labeling your farm CL positive anytime you sell, to putting them down. But if we have dairy goats, and we milk them even if just for personal use, there's no point in keeping them because the milk is not safe to drink. So does that mean it's not wise to have goats at all for milking because they will eventually get CL at some point?? Or we will have to pasteurize the milk every time? We usually drink the milk raw... I mean, we have always had a negative herd, which is why I'm struggling right now because I'm stressing about if they do come back positive. I know there's no point in stressing before hand, but I kinda need a plan for if they do come back positive.

 

[Baymule]

For your vet.....

 

[babsbag]

If your goat has had an abscess I don't think you need to wait for an incubation period. Test now.

I don't believe that CL is inevitable. Buy from clean herds, test new animals, be wary if you show. I have friends that have had clean herds for 20+ years, both dairy and Boer. I have two does that test with titers of 1:16, they have tested that way for years (I haven't retested in the last 2 years...I need to do that). I have never seen a lump, all other goats test negative. UC Davis says that titers of 1:8 to 1:128 can be seen in both infected and uninfected goats. It is a complicated disease.

 

[newbiekat]

We just have one that has an abscess. She's the one we took into the vet when he decided to aspirate it and said the results were inconclusive.

I am waiting the 3 months because he did aspirate it, so technically it was "open" on my place I guess.

I am debating though, when we do test, if it does come back positive (because I'm already dreading the worst), what do I do with them? I know it's a highly debatable question, but do I put down all 8 of my girls? Do I sell them and label them CL + ? I just don't know what to do... I know I'm counting my eggs before they hatch, but I like to have a plan and honestly, if I need to get rid of them all I need to prepare myself emotionally...

 

[babsbag]

Do a blood test on the one that had an abscess, if it comes back at 1:8 then you know you are all clear. If it comes back as anything other than that then test your other goats after 3 months.