Farmerjan's journal - Weather

[farmerjan]

No, no alligators. The bears in the area would probably run from her and her attitude, figure she would be better to just leave a wide berth around. Too bad I can't interest some coyotes to do some scavenging.....

 

[farmerjan]

Hey, from here in cold windy Va.....It was near 50 in the sun, but the wind was 20-30 mph and the wind chill was right at 30. Rough to be out in it this afternoon.
Been a long couple of days. Tested Monday aft. Had some showers, just enough wet to make it crappy. Not too cold. Didn't get home until after 8.
The cow got down up at the pasture, Michael got a friend to go up that night and she was not going to get up. Looked like she got "stifled", her one hip and leg were swollen and she fought everything they tried to do. I had told him that she was not getting around good, and we were going to try to get them in on Tuesday if the rain stopped because it is slick there at the pen. He finally put her down. It was the best option as she would not have been able to be shipped and was thin so the meat wasn't much and was bruised too. She was much thinner than the other 3 and looked rough. They got her out of the field on the back of his bale bed... the 2 arms that lift the rolls of hay are good for hooking the chains to and lifting other stuff.

Took her to the landfill Tuesday morning. I went up and plugged in the truck that is hooked to the trailer, it's a diesel and doesn't like the colder temps. It will start good if it is plugged in for a little bit. Then I packed samples, then went up and got some feed and went to the pasture. There were people at the house, so the cows were a little skittish, but I did finally get the gate shut behind them, in the pen. My son had said that he would meet me there, he had a friend riding with him to open some gates to feed some rolls of hay. So we got the 3 cows and 4 calves loaded and went to town to the stockyard sale.

Put the 3 cows in the sale and loaded the calves back up to take home to put in with the weaned calves. Sold the cows, they weighed 1155, 1155, and 1200 and one brought $.26 she had a bit of a gutty look but really should have done more, the other 2 brought $.39 and $.42 which was about average for all that were there. They might have done a little better in 2 weeks as pound (cull) cows usually do better right after the holidays. But you know what, if another slipped in muddy conditions we could have buried it too. Better they are gone. So the calves went right into the barn when we brought them back and they are used to some grain, so ought to do fine. They were hollering a bit today, but they will get over it in a couple of days.
I tested this morning, and had made a chiropractor appt since I was within 10 miles of there. Time wise it worked out pretty good. Got home, got the vaccines, and went to the barn. He had some help coming and they had gotten the cows with calves in, banded and gave shots to the 6 calves, got the cows sorted out, and they got moved to the winter pasture with the others that got moved a month ago. The bull is in there to start breeding. Moved the others back out but if they start calving anytime soon, they will probably have to get held over because they will never get bred back soon enough again. This whole group was way behind when we preg checked. Not sure what the reason was. Half were all about the same amount of length, just didn't get bred back as soon as they should have.
Have another group of fall calvers at another pasture but most all of them have calved. They will be coming back soon and moved to another field and a bull put in with them too. Calves need to be worked, vaccinated and the cows too.

It was so cold this afternoon with that wind blowing. Had a guy come to look at a steer that he is interested in buying for a beef.... the calf has like a cleft lip so we couldn't sell him but he has been eating with all the rest just fine. If we can get 1.15 for him live weight, which is what the fat cattle were bringing yesterday, then that is good. I guess he doesn't need the beef in the freezer and I really don't need to deal with it either. He ought to weigh 1100 I guess. They will take him and weigh him if the guy buys him. Got the sheep in at his house and wormed the ewes. He's down to about 10 ewes right now. Lost a few, sold some off.

So cattle panels go to the next place and those cows will be coming out fairly soon. There are 12 cow/cf pairs there I think. Cows will get preg checked and the heifer calves weaned off too and put in with the rest. Got another 10 c/cf pairs (heifer calves too) at one other place, then the 35 c/cf pairs, where they are all steers. That group got mixed in with a neighbor when the bulls got to fighting and tore down some fence then a tree took out some more. There are still some of our calves over on him, plus a couple of cows, and we have about a half dozen of his in with our group. We will trade him back, whenever he gets his cows in. They have discussed it so everyone knows who is where and what. Fences will get fixed once he's up and "going" . Those 3 groups need preg checking for this coming spring calving.
The ones with the steers just got put into the last field, so still have a couple of weeks and we have about 10 rolls of hay there that we will feed out before we bring them home. Some of those steers will probably get the "mlv" and put in the one lot and then sold with Rockbridge Cattleman's group in March. May sell some others in Late Jan or early Feb. . Once we get the other 20 heifers "home" I want to go through them and decide who is getting sold and who is getting retained. There are a few that I don't particularly like, and some that are pretty nice. Want to get some moved out from my milk cow place so the bull can go in there to get the rest bred. Planning to sell about 3-4 out of there and just breed the rest. Most are pushing 18-20 months too. But I held off due to making a decision about the ankle because my son isn't going to be dealing with the nurse cows..... not his "forte' ". This way they will be calving in the fall. If the ankle goes well, I will probably have the knee done next year. This way all the nurse cows I will get calves grafted on and they will be good for the winter.

Going to pack the samples and then probably go to bed early. Don't know if I am testing tomorrow,
Temps are supposed to be decent with sun and not much wind, but tomorrow night is supposed to drop to the upper teens..... OUCH.

 

[Mini Horses]

Wondering -- do you mark or tag those you want to keep or sell?
Some can be told by color but, a black angus is black, LOL...and at 20 miles an hr as they pass you -- well....hard to be sure. Especially hard if same people aren't there to sort them.

Had a mini horse friend who chipped all his mares -- said if he was gone and they called with a "sick black mare" he wanted to know WHICH one. LOL

Lot going on with the herd(s) this time of year. Add son & you, plus outside work, gets touchy with time. Cattle was/is the 2nd largest Ag income for VA. Lot of cow!! I was surprised at the # of turkey raised in the state.

 

[Baymule]

That's lots of sorting, hauling and moving. Glad you can get some help with that. That's too bad about the down cow, what a waste. You did the right thing in taking the others to sale, better a low price than no price at all, not to mention having to pay a dump fee.

I am in your cheering fan club on getting your ankle done and next year, your knee. Both will improve your life tremendously. You have suffered long enough, the timing is right, it is your turn to finally get these issues addressed and dealt with.

 

[farmerjan]

@Mini Horses ; all the calves get eartagged. Some at birth, most all when they get run through the chute to blackleg and band the bull calves before they get moved to either summer pastures or winter pastures. Some are obvious who they belong to, the rest I just spend a little time at the pastures, see who is nursing which cow then record it, so I can match cow and calf. Then we can see who is doing the better job of raising their calf.... more milk better growth etc.. I used to carry the tagging box with me and when I was checking cows, would tag a brand new calf if I found it and record it. But my ankle and knee makes it nearly impossible to catch and straddle a calf to get it tagged now. Occasionally I will be able to "sit on one" if I come up on it, but it is dicey for me to get back up......that old age thing with joints that don't work!!!!!! So we just run them through the chute, tag and band the bull calves, blackleg them and then when we let them out, see who goes to what cow. Sometimes they don't go right to their own cow, and as long as we have 6 cows with udders, and 6 calves, and no one is hollering in the other group of "no udders" (meaning not yet fresh), we will move them to pasture. I think we have mis- matched 2 in about 25 years, and it was obvious the next day because a cow was screaming for her calf..... and we moved the cow to the pasture where the calf was and she would immediately claim it.

Once it was because we thought a cow had twins, she was letting both nurse in the pen after being worked, and the actual momma just had a little udder and we thought she hadn't calved yet. She didn't have much udder that whole lactation, and the calf was smart enough to go steal off his buddies momma !!!!! The cow bred right back, and had a better udder the next year, so she got to stay. The first calf grew good by getting extra from the other cow.... I've got a couple cows that will have 2 or 3, 300 lb calves nursing at the same time.... they are that accepting of other calves. Not the best for their own calf to get all the milk, but if there are several cows allowing that, then it sorta works out. I do watch for any that seem to not be getting enough, but have only had a couple of cows that we have actually sold for raising poor calves due to their not having much milk. It almost always has been from bought cows. That could be why they were sold previously. That's the chance you take with bought pregnant cows. They can be some else's cull cows. It is worth the risk, in our case, if we have plenty of feed, and/or pasture to buy them if the prices are not much above "kill prices".
We have bought and sold cows off and on for years like that. Have gotten some real good ones, and a few real duds. But the thing is, if you hit the right timing, you can make more off a bought cow like that than even from raising your own; because alot of the work/money is in the getting them up to the calving stage.

I am not saying that it is our preferred way to have the cattle. But again, with the fluctuating number of pastures we have from year to year, sometimes it makes more sense to add cows that we can sell in the fall, at the same return price or more than what we paid, and have the benefit of a calf as extra income. Like the cow we just lost, she was a bought cow; when run through the chute, she had no teeth, so was a "one and done". If she hadn't been so ornery, and then had the hip/leg problem, she would have made some money. The calf will bring more than her original bought price being a steer calf and a pretty nice one. We will only be out the cost of the grass she ate this summer so to speak. Sad that we had to lose her, but it is part of it. We have to try to "make a little" where we can and being able to buy some that will be strictly for the "calf income return" is part of how we do it. I would rather buy a cow/calf deal than to buy feeder calves that I worry about getting sick and then maybe compromising the whole group of feeders; then having to treat, and it costs to do that. Seems like I just get along better to do breds and cow/calf pairs, than to buy some feeders. It's one of those things that you do what you seem to do best. For me, it is cow/cf and breds. I know several guys who wouldn't touch a bred cow and just run feeders and they are very good at getting them home, keeping them healthy and growing, and catching any that aren't feeling good before it becomes a full fledged problem running through the whole group. That is more for guys who also have them in "feedlots" or that type of thing..... We have the one place to feed in the bunk in the barn, and they do get to go out to the pasture/field too. I cannot take the chance of them all coming in and shoving me around when I have a bucket or feed to spread out and them crowding me with these unstable joints. So you do what you are most comfortable with.

@Baymule we don't have to pay a fee at the landfill for dumping. So that is good. Don't have to pay for our trash collection either unless you have someone who actually picks up at the house. There are dumpsters at strategic spots all around the county. Everyone takes their stuff to them. County picks them up & dumps in the big trucks regularly, goes to the landfill. It is part of our taxes. The different companies that have their own dumpsters, like at the truck stops and gas stations and all, pay a private company for the trash service. Those trash service companies do pay to dump at the landfill, and I am sure that whatever they charge for the pickup service, also includes their costs to dump at the landfill.

 

[farmerjan]

One of the benefits to buying the breds or cow /cf pairs, is to add to the numbers of calves we have to sell. Bigger groups bring better prices. Buyers will pay a few cents more per pound for calves sold in groups than to have to buy a whole bunch of singles. One part of that is that in groups, the calves are usually used to each other, they come from the same place, and so you don't have to deal with 20 calves from 20 farms with 20 different sets of germs, all getting exposed to each other. In groups, they have all had the same germ exposure and they often will just fit in together better, and be less likely to get sick from an odd ball that carries some germ they are not exposed to. Plus it is easier to make up truck loads easier with buying groups. These big buyers are looking to make up tractor trailer lots to ship to whomever they are buying for. Sure, mixing groups will expose then to other germs, but they still seem to be able to do better.
So we try to sell in groups. The calves have to be uniform in size, in build and structure, in weight, and often in color.

Now if you sell at a "graded sale" there are restrictions that are determined by each sale. Some require the calves be 45 days weaned, minimum. They have to be vaccinated, MLV, to be VQA (virginia quality assurance requirments) and follow those protocols. They have to meet a certain grade; meaning they need to have a certain bone structure/build. Large and Medium frames; scores of 1 - 2 - 3 for their flesh. L&M 1&2 bring the best prices. Anything with dairy in it will grade a 3 and can be a L or an M. They will bring the least since they will just not pack on the pounds that the "fat cattle" will have when they go to slaughter. Dairy crosses will grade well as far as choice or prime, but they take more time to gain, cost more to get the weight they need. That is why they are discounted. But color is not a determination at the graded sales.

We have sold in graded sales before. Often will take our "colored calves" to one. We get discounted here for red or char or smokey calves. So if it is a good calf, but the "wrong color" meaning not black, then we do better at a graded sale. Some of the graded sales have few restrictions. Some allow "trailer weaned" calves.... meaning just taken off the cow when put on the trailer. There is more risk to the buyer, but many deal specifically with those type calves and have receiving protocols, to help to keep the calves from getting sick . There are all ways to sell and we try to utilize the best way at the time that we have some ready to go. Getting an extra $ .02 to $.10 per pound for a 500 lb calf is not alot.... but times 20 calves it adds up.
Selling a goat kid or a lamb, and getting $2.00 more for one is not much, but if you have 10 then it adds up. Same principal. Getting 1.40 for a 500 lb calf is 700... getting 1.43 is 715. times 10 that is an extra 150. So it adds up quickly with the feeder calves.

 

[Bruce]

If the animals are being bought for meat what the heck does it matter what color they are?

 

[Senile_Texas_Aggie]

Miss @farmerjan,

I agree with Miss @Baymule -- I am so looking forward to your getting your joints worked on so you won't be in so much pain! You work so hard, and have done so all of your life. having to stand on concrete floors all day, and walk in mud that can sometimes twist an ankle from sliding around. So now, in your golden age, it is time you got to get a break from all of the pain and the hard work.

... a guy that I was going to marry, over 20 years ago... He dropped dead of a heart attack at 55......

You posted the above over on @Mike CHS's journal, and I don't know why I didn't respond then, but I will now. I so much wish your beloved had not died like that. I can imagine how much different your life would be right now were he still alive and healthy. I genuinely hope you meet someone else soon who will love you the way you deserve, and as the fairy tale goes, that you can live happily ever after.

Senile Texas Aggie

 

[HomeOnTheRange]

f the animals are being bought for meat what the heck does it matter what color they are?

It is all about the advertising! We raise both red and black angus. I REALLY like the reds because to me, it is a better meat, the cows and bulls/steers fill out well and the cows are better moms than the black angus. Plus when you go to sell halves (or wholes) and ask black or red angus, they will go with black because that is all they have heard of on TV and in the restaurants. Once I get people to try the red, they never go back, but it takes a huge about of effort to get them to try it in the first place. Darn predetermined perceptions.
@farmerjan, thanks for this thread! I get a lot out of it and am glad others have some of the same issues.

 

[farmerjan]

@Bruce ; @HomeOnTheRange is basically right as to the fact that the Angus Assoc has done one very FINE JOB of promoting angus as "THE BEEF" to eat. And "angus beef" as promoted does not have to be 100% angus... but that is a discussion for another time.
Funny thing is in the US, red angus and black angus are not both registered by the same assoc as they are in other country's..... and as far as the (black) Angus Assoc is concerned the "reds" are considered to be like the proverbial redheaded stepchild.....hide them away. I do not have a dog in that fight, but have seen some mighty fine looking red angus in my time, too. Have been told by some that they have better dispositions.....
All that said, there are differences in how some breeds grow, how well they marble and how FAST they will reach the weights that a particular feedlot wants in order to process. So there are some small reasons that I would consider to be fair to maybe pay a little difference in "colors"..... but not the spread that you see on a day to day basis.... Plus, cattle like the "smokeys" are a cross between angus and charolais.... or maybe another black breed and char. The guys that are professional buyers, that go to 2-3-5 stockyards a week, as order buyers for these big companies, have to be able to look at and make snap decisions in the course of 1-2 minutes as the animals are in the ring, as to which of the companies they represent could use these animals and then what their "ceiling is" as to price to pay.
All that said, there is a fair amount of discrimination in certain areas for the color of the cattle and the perception of how they will fare in a feedlot situation in certain areas of the country. In this area, "black" is the color. If you go farther north, and maybe in Vt but definitely into Canada, red cattle seem to do better. Some premier Charolais breeders in Canada, Herefords, and other RED breeds seem to be favored. If you get into the deeper south, cattle that have some "ear" ; meaning they have a percentage of Brahma in them, are preferred because they are much more heat and insect tolerant. Color does not seem to be as relevant, although I hear that black is becoming more favored. BUT, anything around here with any "ear" will get discounted heavily.....Light colored cattle seem to do better in extremely hot places and will be out grazing in the hottest sun where the blacks will be under a shade treee in the hottest part of the day.

There are alot of subtleties between breeds..... but it is like anything else. People that are only exposed to a certain breed because it is promoted, becomes "the only kind" to have or eat or whatever.

In a like vein, it took up until a few years ago for the Holstein Assoc., to actually welcome Red & White holsteins into their registry and for the Red and White Holstein registry to actually be combined with the (real) "Holstein" Assoc., registry. Years ago, if a red & white holstein was born, they were knocked in the head or if kept, were "explained away" as the cow getting bred by a crossbred bull or the neighbors bull or something...... The "redheaded stepchild syndrome"..... I have one dairy that has red & whites, black & whites, and Brown Swiss. We run them in the paperwork as 3 different groups, and their red & whites actually out milk their black & whites on average...... You can use b/w bulls on r/w and vice versa.... and can do the same in angus. There is the genetics of it.... blacks that have a little reddish color, that show they are carrying the red gene as a recessive and vice versa.....

But back to the "colored calves" as far as the commercial beef cattle. Some buyers do not want them, so that limits the # of buyers for that pen or group of cattle, so limits the competition as they are sold. In the graded pens, the buyers may be representing some different companies. Or can buy a group with the possibility that the companies or feedlots that they go will sometimes sort them off themselves and have different pens for different cattle. Yet, if you have ever seen many feedlot pictures, there are an awful lot of "colors" in any one pen.

You raise what you really like, and know that you are going to take a beating if they are "outside the norm".... or raise what will sell the best in your area.