Guardian dog chewed up a goat today.

[cmjust0]

I removed the dogs muzzle for half a day first, then a full day, but put it back on at night, and yesterday he had it off all day and night! He is wearing his underground fence collar once again (he had it off during all the snow and didn't even attempt to dig under the fence) so that the goats can have a "safe zone" around the perimeter of the pasture where the dog can't reach them if he chases them.

So far, he hasn't touched that little doe once. He used to chew on her within minutes of his muzzle being removed.

Hey, i have a question: Is your weather warming back up, by any chance?



I ask because it doesn't take much sunshine to make a big furry dog in a winter coat pretty warm, and a warm LGD is a lazy LGD. Remember how the cooler days and nights affected him, causing him to go a little nuts...spring will most likely have the opposite effect.

My prediction is that he'll mellow out this summer, then go a little wild again this fall...but not nearly as bad...and become what you might call a grown up next spring.

Which, of course, means you've still got about a year of puppiness with him. Big dogs like this don't typially live long, so it seems like they extend the best part of life as long as possible....childhood.



FWIW, Ivan just turned two this past month. As I mentioned to you before, there were times when we'd see him chasing and grabbing goats by the back of the neck and along the shoulders.. A couple of times, we thought we'd come out someday to find he'd mauled one till it pooped sideways...but no.

And at this point...I don't suspect it'll ever, ever happen. I trust him implicitly.

I used to just trust that someday I'd be able to trust him implicitly, regardless of his antics on a particular day.

I think you'll get there.

 

[dianneS]

I removed the dogs muzzle for half a day first, then a full day, but put it back on at night, and yesterday he had it off all day and night! He is wearing his underground fence collar once again (he had it off during all the snow and didn't even attempt to dig under the fence) so that the goats can have a "safe zone" around the perimeter of the pasture where the dog can't reach them if he chases them.

So far, he hasn't touched that little doe once. He used to chew on her within minutes of his muzzle being removed.

Hey, i have a question: Is your weather warming back up, by any chance?



I ask because it doesn't take much sunshine to make a big furry dog in a winter coat pretty warm, and a warm LGD is a lazy LGD. Remember how the cooler days and nights affected him, causing him to go a little nuts...spring will most likely have the opposite effect.

My prediction is that he'll mellow out this summer, then go a little wild again this fall...but not nearly as bad...and become what you might call a grown up next spring.

I bet the weather does have a lot to do with it. Its been near 60 here lately. He is a lot more calm. I have found a little bit of slobber on my little doe, almost like he gave it a try and the taste deterent put him off, so I think that stuff might be helping as well.

I've even taken his underground fence collar off lately. I think we may have broken the, digging under the fence habit!

I'll have to inform Alex's breeder of this temperature/weather thing affecting these dogs behavior. This is something she apparently is not aware of!

 

[dianneS]

Whoa. Tonight was a close call, and could have been a huge disaster.

Alex has been doing great. Hasn't touched the little goat. There has been evidence that he has "tasted" her, but apparently the taste deterrent that I've applied to her neck and ears is working.

I've even taken Alex's underground fence collar off, and his muzzle entirely for several days now. He's not even barking excessively anymore when something sets him off, he knows to cool it when the threat is gone. He's been great. He alerted me to about 10 deer in the field tonight too.

I let my chickens out of the henhouse tonight for some free ranging right before dark. They were running everywhere. I went to the barn to get Alex his evening dog biscuit. When I got to his gate I saw he had ahold of something, under his paws, like he had pounced on something. I screamed at him (not knowing what it was) and threw the dog buicuit at him (it was the only thing I had to throw, just a reflex). He jumped back and a 12 week old chick hopped up off of the ground (unharmed) and ran out of the fenced area. Alex ran about 20 feet away from me and flopped down and showed me his belly.

I ran over to him, and couldn't really scold him because he did the right thing when I yelled, so I grabbed him by the scruff and just shook him a little to reinforce that "yes, that was bad" which he obviously already knew.

I went back to the chickens, and several minutes later, checked on Alex. He was still lying in the same spot and hadn't moved. He didn't even get up to eat that biscuit I had thrown at him! I went in the pasture and picked up his biscuit and took it over too him, he showed his belly again. I just dropped the biscuit on the ground and walked away from him. He remained in that spot for some time.

I did put his zapper collar back on him, because had he been wearing that, he would have gotten zapped before he pounced on the chick, in theory anyway.

He came over to me and shoved his head under my hand. I gave him a few pets, but not a lot of affection. He did the right thing, but he was still bad, I didn't want to seem like I was rewarding him. I just remained neutral for the most part.

I was really shocked at what took place, but over all, really pleased with his reaction to the whole situation. I think he's catching on. I am really impressed with how he reacted. I'm just glad I was there to catch it. Had I not been there, I think he would have killed the chick, but he didn't hurt it immediately?? Maybe he was going to play with it? I don't know, he isn't completely mezmerized by the chickens most of the time, he'll look at them, but its not like he's ever totally focused on them. I think I may be able to break him of the chicken killing too.

Things seem hopeful!

Only one problem though. The mamma hen has abandoned this chick now. Either she thinks he's dead and has moved on with her life, or she doesn't want him around because of being such a liability! The little thing is big enough to get around alone, but not outside the henhouse. I'll just have to keep he/she indoors! Poor thing.

 

[Roll farms]

I've never found a 'mauled' bird where the LGD are, or even when the house dogs get an errant chick from the brooder...they 'play' with them to death. Slobber, yes...bite marks? No.

(The Anatolian we had slobbered-to-death a couple guinea who were free ranging...they Pyrs have never bothered a bird.)

The chicks may even die of shock instead of real 'injury'.

And I agree, his reaction to your correction shows promise....

They are puppies, and what puppy could resist some little thingie running around like that...?

 

[cmjust0]

You did what a good LGD mama would have done, which is to see what he was doing and correct him.

Dogs correct each other pretty harshly.

I'm not what to make of him showing you his belly, though.. Then again he's young yet, and he's a different breed than we have. May be nothing..

Our LGD freezes when you yell and scare him...he's never shown us a belly, ever. He knows not to show aggression toward us, but he doesn't have it in him to run or show any outward submission....so he just stops.

I liken it to the software in his brain crashing.

As for him laying off by himself, that sounds very LGD-ish. They're very, very sensitive dogs, and they learn quickly. I yelled at ours one morning out of frustration -- not good -- and then left the house in a huff without making up. I forgot about it while I was at work, but the dog didn't.

When I got home, I went out to visit him and the goats.. He moved away from me like "Ok, boss.. I remember.. I'm not supposed to come around you anymore." I had to stop and think about why he'd be doing that, and then I remembered.

It absolutely BROKE. MY. HEART.

I finally got him to stop and he went still, afraid I was gonna jump on him again...I petted and petted and petted and just loved on him as much as I could, and never have I seen a dog so relieved.

I felt like a real turd, too, because I knew he'd been out there all day thinking...."My master hates me."



It's just something you have to get used to with these dogs.. They're just really, really sensitive..

 

[dianneS]

Our LGD freezes when you yell and scare him...he's never shown us a belly, ever. He knows not to show aggression toward us, but he doesn't have it in him to run or show any outward submission....so he just stops.

I liken it to the software in his brain crashing.

As for him laying off by himself, that sounds very LGD-ish. They're very, very sensitive dogs, and they learn quickly.

I'm not sure why he showed his belly either, maybe his software was crashing?

I was pleased that he reacted though, because I didn't really harshly yell at him at first, since I didn't even know what was going on. I was more like "hey, what the heck are you doing?" He turned and looked at me and I saw he was holding something down with his paws and I yelled "no!" and threw a dog biscuit at him. With the "no" he knew I was mad, and that's when he headed off and flopped over, ignoring the biscuit too!

In the past, he would have completely ignored me. When he was younger, he had no knowledge or meaning of the word no, or any other yelling at all, it had no impact on him whatsoever. So he is catching on!


I re-treated my little doe yesterday with her taste deterrent, and I'm pretty confident that will keep the dog off of her. I thought he had begun chewing on the next smallest wether because I found that guy with pink on the tips of his ears. I thought it was blood. It was actually berry flavored Billy Block. I have no idea how it got on his ears though! (Who knows with that particular goat. He is always getting into trouble. He got pinned under a skid, before that, a piece of plywood and all the big goats jumped on top of it. He's been stepped on by a horse and fallen in a bucket of water! But he hasn't been chewed on by the dog!) That was a relief.

Alex hasn't been digging or excessively barking either. He's becoming very aloof to visitors too. He'll come say hello, and then he gets back to work. He was lying in the pasture yesterday, just scanning the horizon, like a survelance camera! I couldn't break his concentration when I called to him at all.

So far so good. He definitely seems as though he is maturing, and that's a good thing!

 

[dianneS]

Things are still good with the dog. He's been doing a great job. No longer barking excessively. He seems to know when to call it quits. Hasn't touched a goat in months.

He seems to be getting along better with that big goat that was picking on him. Now they seem to be almost playing together. She was on a tree stump the other day and he was on the ground. She kept acting like she was going to head butt him and he was "talking" and flapping his jaws at her. Finally he just laid down in front of her and rolled on his back and showed his belly!

The baby goats that he used to rough up are starting to head butt the dog now too! Everyone is getting along really well. Even the goats have worked out their herd dynamics since the last three new ones arrived (I think the new additions may have had something to do with the dogs freak out as well).

I'm really pleased, once again, and for now. I've even had some chickens get in the fence with him. He eyed them, I gave him a warning, and he ignored them!

The weather has been warmer here, but its dropping again at night and we've had some cold rainy days, and the dog is still doing well.

My mini horse ran the fence lines with the dog the other day and wore that dog out! The horses are in with the goats right now and the little horse and dog are kind of rivals. The little horse used to chase all of the goats and the dog, but now that the dog is almost as big as the horse, that dog is keeping that little horse in line! Its working really well.

I'm so glad that I didnt' give up on him!

 

[Grillo]

Awesome. Once he's fully mature, god willing, you will have years of protection for your stock. Nothing like having a big dog telling people and predators to stay away!

 

[countrywife]

Oh Dianne, I am so glad to see this! My Boss has been maturing nicely too. We actually got rid of what I believe was the "problem" goat- she just egged him on all the time. She would fight him for his food, harass him, generally was a not nice goat. So, I re-homed her. I found Boss yesterday morning in the barn with the 6 goats, we culled the herd this weekend, laying on his back, with his belly in the air, and all the goats sniffing him. I have just yesterday started letting him go without his muzzle at night, but still put him in the kennel during the day. Told the hubby last night that I think I am going to try without the muzzle at night, but leave it on during the day, and let him stay out of the kennel. We have also started almost daily letting our GSD in the field with the pup, and that burns ALOT of his energy. Boss met his first duck this week, and after being bopped twice on the nose, by the duck, he keeps his distance. My baby was 1 year old in January, so I think we are on the upswing. This has been the best thread ever.

 

[dianneS]

My baby was 1 year old in January, so I think we are on the upswing. This has been the best thread ever.

My boy will be a year old next month. He's really impressing me now. Like he did in the very beginning, before he went through his "teenage" phase. It almost seems as though that phase is over.

I never did have him neutered and he doesn't seem to be affected by hormones anymore. No trying to mount goats at all. He doesn't mouth the goats anymore either. I even have at least one doe in heat, and my young wethers are going berzerk, even though they don't know why, but the dog is fine.

He's actually playing nicely with the goats. I find him laying amongst them a lot. The little ones lay next to him. I do still treat his favorite goats head and ears with bitter apple spray about once a week, or if the weather is cool or rainy and they are all in the barn and he might get bored and start to chew on her.

I don't have a muzzle for him anymore. Someone chewed it up! I don't know if it was a goat or a dog, but the muzzle needs to be replaced.

It almost seems as if a switch was flipped in Alex's brain, and he just all of a sudden knows what to do, and what is expected of him. His much more laid back, he doesn't jump on me anymore (he's tall enough now, he doesn't have to jump up!) he's not as aggressive with his food anymore, he's just very mature all of a sudden. He's much more aloof as well. He'll come say 'Hi' and then he gets back to work. He barked at my husband the other day because my husband was carrying a chain saw. That must have been threatening to Alex. He's barked at me if I have a hood on, or something obscuring my face and I look suspicious to him.

The rolling around on the ground and showing his belly to the goats is new, he never did that before. He seems to want to play with them, but realizes that he needs to submit to them as well. He's even getting along with my mini horse, and they used to hate each other!

Its been almost like a miracle! But I'm prepared if things go south again in the future and we go through another "phase". I won't freak out this time, especially since now I see he really does have true guardian dog instincts. I won't give up on him ever.