Livestock guardian dog trouble

[Rammy]

Wow. Sorry to hear that. Im sure your upset about it. Its too bad we cant talk to them and them to us to understand whats going on. Its too bad you may have to rehome one.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

Geeze - sorry they're being so short-tempered. I wonder if spaying would calm them down....

 

[Devonviolet]

Wow Babs! How frustrating. I’m not an expert, but I have heard that generally speaking, it works best to put a male and female together and not put two females together, when it comes to working LGDs. If I remember correctly (and our experience has been) that the female is the alpha and the male is more laid back. Two alpha don’t work well together.

We got our two pure bred Maremma’s in Kansas, from an alpaca ranch. They had four working LGDs, in multiple pastures - 3 females and one male. Not too long before I picked up our puppies, the breeder had a problem with two of their females fighting and one getting hurt. They had tried several combinations of different dogs. They finally decided that they just wouldn’t put females together, because all of their fighting. I can’t say that happens in all cases, but it isn’t the first time I have heard of that.

Do you have separate pens you can put them and their goats in?

I’m sure SBC will have good advise for you, and I hope you can find a way to keep your LGD.

 

[Baymule]

That's tough @babsbag. My female GP hated my Female Aussie and it was a mutual hatred. The Aussie (35 pounds) would pile into Paris and the killing was on. It took both of us to separate them, then take the Aussie to the vet. Paris also hated all other dogs except the male GP, and it took her awhile to warm up to him. The Aussie died 2 years ago. We had Paris spayed last year. We have a 7 month old puppy, lab/Great Dane and would you believe that Paris now happily romps around with both of our other dogs? her whole attitude changed.

So what did it? The female Aussie dying and not being around for that mutual hatred any more? Spaying? Old age? I think it was the spaying. She has calmed sown and is not the WITCH she used to be.

Will it work for your dogs? I don't know and do you really want to spay both of them to find out that it failed to make them get along?

 

[Ridgetop]

Our older female Weimaraner, male Weimaraner, and Rika were waiting at the gate when we got home one day shortly after we had gotten our 18 months old Anatolian bitch. Until then the dogs had seemed to be getting along. Unbeknownst to us Rika was coming into season. The Weimie bitch was spayed, and the male was intact. He was a champion and still showing in specials classes so we couldn't neuter him. DH started to go into the yard through the gate. I tried to stop DH and tell him to go into the house through the garage instead, but he had opened the gate anyway and started in. The Anatolian was shoving the other 2 out of the way to be the first to greet DH. The Weimie bitch growled as she was pushed aside and the Anatolian promptly turned and attacked her brutally. Poor Didi was trapped behind the gate and couldn't get away, the male Weimie took the opportunity to push himself forward to greet DH, blocking the entryway. Both DH and I tried to get through the gate together to stop the Anatolian from killing the Weimie. Utter pandemonium ensued!

When we finally pulled the Anatolian off Didi she had deep punctures and tears on her back and side. That is when we discovered that the Anatolian was coming into season. I couldn't spay her while she was in season - bleeding danger too high. We patched up Didi and for the next 3 weeks incarcerated the Anatolian (to the sadness of the male Weimie) in the kennel run. Once the dogs were together again the Anatolian would constantly threaten or attack the Weimie. The Weimie bitch was not an alpha bitch at all. Finally, after months of musical dog in the kennel run, they seemed to come to an understanding. But it was a very iffy situation. 6 months later we rehomed the male for other reasons, and Didi died a year later.

Our breeder told us that Anatolians get very nasty with PMS when they come into season and he frequently has to separate bitches during that time. He rarely keeps mature bitches of the same age together although he can keep younger bitches together and bitches of different ages together. Adult Anatolian males cannot be kept together at all. Rika is now almost 7, our second Anatolian is a male almost 3, and the new puppy is a bitch. There will be enough age difference between her and the puppy that they will not fight since Rika will be the dominant bitch.

Our Pyrenees bitch used to get cranky when she came into season and the dogs would have a growling, snarling noise fight which did not last long. Watching our Anatolian go after Didi gave a whole other meaning to the term "bitch fight". You can certainly try spaying the bitches, it will definitely level off the hormones. On the other hand, if they have never been good friends, they may carry this grudge afterwards.

What breed are they? GPs usually get along with each other in a group situation. Our Pyrs got along, but with our Anatolians we have to be careful.

 

[babsbag]

One is an anatolian and the other is a mix of anatolian/Kangal/Akbash, and ovcharka. My oldest female is about 8 or 9 years old, and she is the same mix, but not one messes with her. She doesn't fight, ever. She just gives them that "look". Perhaps there is something to that age thing, I had never heard that before, but it sure seems to be the case here. I don't know what I will be doing, keeping them apart permanently is just going to be a management nightmare for me. Plus whatever dog ends up living in the buck pen will seldom get any interaction with me as I don't visit with the bucks. And while my dogs are LGDs and have a job they are also my partners and friends; we are very bonded.

 

[Devonviolet]

That is definitely a frustrating situation. Have the two females, that fought been with all of the goats? If so, they should be bonded with all of them, and maybe you could rotate them between paddocks, but just make sure they aren’t together anymore.

 

[Baymule]

You're between a rock and a hard place.

 

[babsbag]

It is a horrible place to be in. I have never rehomed an adult dog or cat...NEVER. When I take an animal (not goats) I take it for life. Both of these girls and MINE and this hurts a lot. Mia is in the house right now but it adds a lot of shuffling to my routine to have her in here. I won't leave her loose in the yard when I am gone as she could jump the fence with ease so I put her in the dog run. But if I am going to be gone for more than an hour or so I usually put my other dogs in the run and they can't all go in there together. Mia is definitely dominant and displays that trait with one of my Border Collies which does not go over well at all. I won't leave them alone together when I go out to do chores either. So the BCs go to my bedroom and Mia stays in the house. Of course if isn't raining I can put on or the other outside. Gosh it gets confusing.

I do have another field I could put Mia in but she would never see me. It is with the bucks and I am never in with the bucks, I just feed them. I am thinking that she would miss me.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

I do have another field I could put Mia in but she would never see me. It is with the bucks and I am never in with the bucks, I just feed them. I am thinking that she would miss me.

It's worth a try.... The time that you save by not shuffling dogs around might give you a little bit of extra time to spend with Mia...?