Magic cell? Barberpole worm?

[hannahbanana3]

Hi everyone, we have been battling with barberpole worm and anemia, in the beginning of June the goats for it really bad as their eyes were all white and one had diarrhea (bailey) my mixed breed (Hershey) was the best as hers were light pink. So we gave them all a shot of ivomec dewormer for cattle and swine, then again two weeks later. We talked with the person we got our goats from and she said give them magic cell for horses so we have been and they seem to be doing better their eyes we getting darker(but still not very dark) . About a week and a half ago we realized our goat tucker had clumpy poop and his eyes were white again so we gave him the shot again and an again two days later and will repeat that again on two weeks. But the problem is our goat Hershey is great, on the famancha chart she is about optimal and tucker is doing better but my other 2 goats arnt that dark and we've been loading the goats with magic cell. But our vets noticed we were giving the magic cell an said they highly NOT recommend that because of the high amounts of copper on it. Well I've been researching it and it says goats need the copper. So I was wondering what were all your opinions about it because I would say they need it considering their still sort of anemic? Sorry for such a long write up thanks!

 

[elevan]

We use Red Cell (Magic Cell) for wormload anemia. Goats DO need copper and unless you are giving other high dose copper supplements (or giving too much of it) you are not gonna send your goat into toxicity with it. We use it here at a dosage of 6ml per 20-30 pounds.

Your "worms" may be resistant to ivermectin. You may need to try a different class of dewormer.

Here is an article to help you better understand the Barberpole worm and battling it:
http://www.backyardherds.com/web/viewblog.php?id=2607-parasite-mgmt

 

[autumnprairie]

are you giving the ivermectin orally?
It works better if done orally not given as a shot

 

[20kidsonhill]

You can overdose them on copper if you give it too them too many days in a row at too high a dosage.

I would switch to a stronger wormer, or have fecals done to make sure the wormer you are usiing is strong enough. You may not be getting a good enough kill on the worm load with injectable ivermectin. I would recommend cydectin or synanthic.

We have had luck with copper bolusing for a reduction of cases of anemia due to the fact that copper oxide rods lay in the stomach lining(rumen lining) and kill the barberpole worms. You may wish to do wome research on this.

We give pig iron shots with Vitamin B complex shots for anemia so we don't have to keep giving the red cell(magic cell) all the time. But we do use some Red Cell. I will dose a 100 or more lbs goat with 30cc one time and then 15 cc's for a few days in a row, not normally more than 2 weeks.

 

[hannahbanana3]

Ok thanks! I was giving them a lot at the time, but I didn't figure it was that big of a deal considering they were so anemic right now thy all get 10 cc throughout the day, two weeks ago we took them off for a week and them put them back on it

 

[hannahbanana3]

are you giving the ivermectin orally?
It works better if done orally not given as a shot

We did the shot because it's faster acting and they had it really bad

 

[hannahbanana3]

You can overdose them on copper if you give it too them too many days in a row at too high a dosage. .

How would you know if you overdosed?

 

[Roll farms]

The shot is NOT more effective / fast acting. For stomach / gut worms, ivomec has been proven to work better for barberpole if given orally. For lung worm or mites, it's best given Sub Q.

See Langston, Purdue, UK, etc. university studies - they all recommend giving ivo orally if you're after anything in the guts.

Frankly, once you have Barberpole issues, you're likely always going to unless you keep them on a different pasture and rotate it. Short grass is where barberpole live...goats go out in short grass...get barberpole again and again.

The problem w/ giving too much red cell too often is -yes, they need the iron for blood-building...but the extra copper can build up over time. It will start to build up in their system and they can't eliminate it quickly. It won't be quick or obvious, but they'll get puny from copper toxicity the same as they will from copper deficiency.

I'd cut back on the red cell and offer a handful of calf-manna daily (our vets other recommended way to build up goats who are down w/ parasites). Maybe give 1 dose of red cell per week at the dosage rate Elevan suggested.

One of the things I read when dealing w/ barberpole suggested a dewormer cocktail. Mix 1 cc per 25# of ivermectin w/ 1cc per 10# of safeguard and give both. Repeat on day 10 and day 21. Have a fecal ran to confim it 'worked' on day 25.

Always give probios / probiotics after deworming.

 

[autumnprairie]

The shot is NOT more effective / fast acting. For stomach / gut worms, ivomec has been proven to work better for barberpole if given orally. For lung worm or mites, it's best given Sub Q.

See Langston, Purdue, UK, etc. university studies - they all recommend giving ivo orally if you're after anything in the guts.

Frankly, once you have Barberpole issues, you're likely always going to unless you keep them on a different pasture and rotate it. Short grass is where barberpole live...goats go out in short grass...get barberpole again and again.

The problem w/ giving too much red cell too often is -yes, they need the iron for blood-building...but the extra copper can build up over time. It will start to build up in their system and they can't eliminate it quickly. It won't be quick or obvious, but they'll get puny from copper toxicity the same as they will from copper deficiency.

I'd cut back on the red cell and offer a handful of calf-manna daily (our vets other recommended way to build up goats who are down w/ parasites). Maybe give 1 dose of red cell per week at the dosage rate Elevan suggested.

One of the things I read when dealing w/ barberpole suggested a dewormer cocktail. Mix 1 cc per 25# of ivermectin w/ 1cc per 10# of safeguard and give both. Repeat on day 10 and day 21. Have a fecal ran to confim it 'worked' on day 25.

Always give probios / probiotics after deworming.

Thanks for adding the probiotics info I did not know to add it after deworming but it makes sense. ( going out to give pro biotics now, I did my deworming yesterday)