Parasite Management - OSU Seminars (Goats & Sheep) - F.D. notes pg10

[elevan]

I'll answer within your quote in italics

Let me just say: THANK YOU! again. I am loving this. I wish I could attend online, but your notes are wonderful. I cant wait for my goat clinic (on the 25th).

anyway, I had a few questions (shocking huh?)

You're very welcome...I just wish the study was done with goats instead of sheep but eh, what can you do.

"Non-traditional forages: Forage Feast Chicory & Brown Mid-Rib (BMR) Sorghum x Sudangrass"

We grow a lot of sorghum. We press the juice out and make molasses (cane syrup) from it. Yum! Was there much said about sorghum for forage? We feed the pressed stalks to the cattle, and now I am wondering about giving it to the goats.

The use of BMR was as a "safe" pasture....meaning it was browsed fresh. It also was used because it is difficult for the L3 worm to climb. BUT it matures very rapidly and loses nutritional value as it ages and therefore if you're waiting till it's mature to cut it you might lose too much. As far as feeding the pressed stalks of your sorghum...I'd have them tested and see what you find in the analysis. Every variation of plant is a little different.


"*When spring lambing: feed green chop forage [confinement dairy model]"

What is meant by green chop forage?

See aggieterpkatie's answer to what the dairy model is...very good answer.

"Genetics - work towards sheep with resistance"

The lady who owns the herd I will be purchasing from mentions this ALOT. "if you have to worm it often, cull, cull, CULL"
A resistant herd......does this mean that they usually carry a smaller load and therefore do not have symtoms as often, or does it mean that thay can carry a higher wormload before showing symptoms?

Essentially all of them carry "some" worm load. A clean fecal doesn't mean you don't have any worms, it means you have an acceptably low amount of them. A resistant herd usually carries a small load but even when they have a higher load they are not affected by them. At 7-9 months of age goats start to develop an immunity to worms. That doesn't mean that the don't get worms but that when they do get a heavy burden their body shifts it's reaction to the worm. A young goat's immune system tries to fight the worm aggressively and puts all resources into that fight which can cause the kids to go downhill quickly. A goat with an immunity would move it's immune resources to counteracting what the worm does (cause anemia) so that the effects of the worm are not there even though the worm is. I hope that makes sense.


*Increase grass rest periods and use alternative species grazing with cattle so sheep do not return to the same paddock until about 140 days


Interesting. So I can rotate out cattle and goats. I wonder if this has a postive effect on the worm load of cattle. That potential opens up alot of grazing land for me (as I reclaim it) bwaaahahhahhaa!

I think an important part of this is understanding where your animals have been previously and understanding the worm's life cycle. ie: Don't put your animals on fields in the spring that were grazed in the fall (use those that were grazed in the previous summer instead). And / or rotate them every 3 days and don't allow them to return to a previously used pasture until the L3 larvae have died.

Use stockpiled forages in winter (cornfield grazing).

This is really making my wheels turn. Fence in the garden, let the goats clean it up and fertilize it at the same time.
( Might get some chickens so they can turn the dirt a little). We usually cut the stalks after we harvest and feed to the cattle. I may try a stalk or two for the goats next time. Do you know if this can be fed dry? I wonder if it has any value after its been cut and dried, I have a large corn crib that I could easily hang it like one would dry tobacco. I would love to have some other options for them in the winter months, beside just grass hay. It's not really a parasite thing, but with the cattle I see a change in condition, when the forage is down and all they get is grass hay. They are still fat, but just not as nice looking without the forage. I would imagine it would be the same with goats.

I've fed cornstalks to my goats without problem. Remember corn (the plant) is a grass. But, this model has them using unharvested corn...so that the corn ears are still on the stalk when they turn the sheep out. I would really be leary of doing this with goats imo. Yes, they hand fed the sheep straight corn prior to turning them out onto this field but I just imo don't think that would work well for goats...especially male goats.

As far as your garden...you might need to remove certain plants before turning them on to it but I think it could help you add a "free" feed to your program.

Hmmm. lots of food for thought in this one, lol. I didnt have much garden this year, but hopefully will have an easier summer next year. I was hesitant to feed garden cutting to goats, but I think I will slowly add the garden greenery next year. I will have to research a little on hanging things to dry for them, if there is enough nutrition in the dried vegetation, I would be thrilled to offer more forage in the winter months.

I fired off an email to the local agricultural crop and forage agent asking about chickory and lespedezia (sp?). He told me that the chickory was not a good thing to plant around here, it didnt grow well, and was usually choked out by weeds by midsummer. He pretty much said the same thing about the lespedezia, but that confused me a little as we have a few large fields of it around here. The rabbits LOVE it. Your notes said that silaged chickory had little value, but I wonder about the lespedezia. I have a pretty good relationship with those land owners, so I know I could pull some and probably mow some, if its worth it. I do intend to pull a plant, and take it in to this agent. I would like to see what type of lespedezia it is, and see if it has a off season nutritional value. (plus, if our lespedezia is a profitable plant, get some seed and start some of my own)

Gosh I never knew worms could get me so fired up!

 

[elevan]

Overwintered larvae are a bigger factor than previously thought. Spring grazing of pastures used in the previous Fall should be avoided...use those from the previous summer instead.

That statement runs contrary to the other studies I've seen, and I'd love to know how they determined that to be true.. If it was because they put low/zero FEC animals on Spring pastures and they miraculously got wormy, it would mean absolutely nothing..

Barberpole worms primarily overwinter *in the host* through hypobiosis..

Now, if they tested Spring grass for viable larvae, that would definitely put a dent in my longstanding argument -- but I doubt that's what they did.

I really don't think that point was made very clear...on how they determined the overwintered larvae.

The study put "clean" lambs onto "clean" pasture...so, somewhere it went wrong.

 

[elevan]

What they were trying to say is that you need to implement a lot of little ways to keep parasites at a liveable level. You have to learn how to coexist with the parasites. One of the farmers is putting his lambs on alfalfa pastures. He grows them out to 120 days and then ships them off. He loses some money on weight but has added more ewes to have more lambs. He said it was much less labor intensive for him so he is making money and not losing in the long run. It really comes down to doing a lot of studying and research on your own farm to find out what works for your farm. You can't count on any one thing.

Exactly!

EVERY FARM is different. While these 3 were all in Ohio they each saw things very differently and have chosen different methods of going forward but they each realize that you MUST co-exist with the worm. You have to have an INTEGRATED PARASITE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (IPMS) FOR YOUR FARM. How do you do that? Some trial and error...some testing...knowing the worm...and knowing your environment.

The farm that had good results with the chicory is fairly close to where I am. The farm that was super weedy was in southern Ohio. Your environment is obviously gonna play a large part in what you're able to grow if you decide to add this element into your IPMS. It was said several times that NUTRITION is very important because an animal that is getting proper nutrition is less likely to develop problems when hit with a curve ball such as worms.

 

[cmjust0]

I really don't think that point was made very clear...on how they determined the overwintered larvae.

The study put "clean" lambs onto "clean" pasture...so, somewhere it went wrong.

Well...if they put them there with mama, then mama's where the worms came from. And if they weaned them off onto clean pastures, they had probably already picked up worms from mama before they went over.

Basically, unless they pulled them at birth, bottle raised them on a dry lot with hay, THEN put them over there, and THEN they got wormy -- all of which I doubt -- then I'd say they settled on a cause/effect without enough real evidence..

But hey, I didn't do the study so I dunno..

 

[redtailgal]

x

 

[elevan]

I really don't think that point was made very clear...on how they determined the overwintered larvae.

The study put "clean" lambs onto "clean" pasture...so, somewhere it went wrong.

Well...if they put them there with mama, then mama's where the worms came from. And if they weaned them off onto clean pastures, they had probably already picked up worms from mama before they went over.

Basically, unless they pulled them at birth, bottle raised them on a dry lot with hay, THEN put them over there, and THEN they got wormy -- all of which I doubt -- then I'd say they settled on a cause/effect without enough real evidence..

But hey, I didn't do the study so I dunno..

They were put out as weaned early...at 60 days. Prior to that they were kept in the barns while their dams went to pasture without them.

 

[elevan]

Thanks for the answers Elevan and aggie!

I understand about the corn. I am pretty adament about not feeding corn to my critters. Sure, they all end up getting some, but that is super hard to avoid these days. I'm not sure how society ended up so corn crazy.

Anyway, thanks lady!

It used to be super cheap...

 

[cmjust0]

They were put out as weaned early...at 60 days. Prior to that they were kept in the barns while their dams went to pasture without them.

Hmm.. So the lambs were never allowed on grass in the first 60 days of their lives.. Interesting..

Did they conduct this part of the study *specifically* to test the overwintering capability of barberpole larvae on pasture?

 

[elevan]

They were put out as weaned early...at 60 days. Prior to that they were kept in the barns while their dams went to pasture without them.

Hmm.. So the lambs were never allowed on grass in the first 60 days of their lives.. Interesting..

Did they conduct this part of the study *specifically* to test the overwintering capability of barberpole larvae on pasture?

No the study was done to test the anti-parasitic properties of the plants used. There were assumptions made about the overwintering of larvae...such as that they didn't overwinter well on pasture. They have since retracted those assumptions due to their findings in the lambs. The study was done specifically towards barberpole worm.

 

[cmjust0]

They were put out as weaned early...at 60 days. Prior to that they were kept in the barns while their dams went to pasture without them.

Hmm.. So the lambs were never allowed on grass in the first 60 days of their lives.. Interesting..

Did they conduct this part of the study *specifically* to test the overwintering capability of barberpole larvae on pasture?

No the study was done to test the anti-parasitic properties of the plants used. There were assumptions made about the overwintering of larvae...such as that they didn't overwinter well on pasture. They have since retracted those assumptions due to their findings in the lambs. The study was done specifically towards barberpole worm.

Well...if that's what they found and there was no pre-contamination of the kids, then that really sucks. One of my concerns was that the idea I had in mind would simply be overridden by barberpoles as they found new ways to overwinter, but if this is true...they may have already begun doing it, even without any real 'extinction pressure' to do so..

Is there some text out there on this study? Usually these kinds of studies come with documentation of what was done, when, what methods were used, etc.. Any information you could give me that would even help me find it on google would be great..