respecting the horns

[carolinagirl]

Quote: "I saw it done once and I couldn't believe how the goat screamed. No thanks."

I hope you or one of your children, your spouse, or another innocent person never has to scream in pain because you didn't dehorn your animals. Hearing a human scream in pain is far worse than hearing a goat or calf. I've been there far too many times (not just due to animals).

What's next? Pulling the teeth of our dogs so they don't hurt us? Declawing the cat (Oh wait...people do that too). Sorry....I just don't see it. Any farm animal can hurt us. Horses can kick us. What can we do to prevent that kind of injury? Use care around the back end of a horse. I had boar goats for years and they all had massive horns. No one ever got hurt because we were all careful. I even milked some of them. I kind of liked the horns...I had built-in handles! This time around I wanted a polled animal because I am getting a LGD to work around them and I don't want my dog injured. I know enough to respect the horns, but a young dog doesn't. Why can't someone develop abreed of milk goats that are naturally polled, as has been done with sheep breeds?

 

[Roll farms]

There are naturally polled dairy goats. A lot of people specifically breed for that....they're just not real common. Google "polled Nubians".

To me, disbudding is no more cruel than leaving horns on and finding a horned animal hung in the fence, dead... or finding a hurt doe down who's been hit w/ horns by another goat.

And yes, even disbudded goats can hurt you. But I'd rather be hit by one who's not got any horns to add insult to the injury.

It is a matter of preference, but please don't imply that dehorning in and of itself is cruel. If done properly, the kids are FINE 30 seconds after you're done. They scream as much from the confinement as they do the actual procedure.

The last 2 of my horned boers are leaving this coming weekend. They are not worth the hassle (even though they make BEAUTIFUL babies).
I cannot leave my dehorned does in with them (they beat them up) and they destroyed a brand new barn wall by just banging it repeatedly b/c they are bored.

I lost a gorgeous doe last year b/c a horned buck hit her in the neck, sideways and did irrepairable damage.

And...think about it...Would you guys like being grabbed by your ears every time someone needed to medicate you...?
Imagine what being jerked around by an appendage on your head feels like....
I never touch their horns if I can help it....I imagine that causes one heck of a stiff neck when it's all said and done. Handles indeed...

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Why can't someone develop abreed of milk goats that are naturally polled, as has been done with sheep breeds?

There ARE polled goats, but the polled gene is linked to the intersex gene. You can't breed polled to polled, so you're always going to get a percentage of polled/horned. That means if you want registered, sellable dairy goats you're stuck with disbudding, regardless of your personal thoughts on it.

The slippery slope argument is totally and completely unfair to folks who treat their animals with respect and still choose to disbud, whether it's for safety reasons or because it's required to work within the system. You're of course entitled to your opinion but this is an "agree to disagree" sort of subject and implying that those of us who disbud are inhumane probably isn't the way to go about it.

Edited to add: what Roll said... we posted at the same time.

 

[carolinagirl]

We would never subject a puppy to ear cropping without the benefits of anesthesia (I don't agree with ear cropping either). No animal should be subjected to painful procedures without the benefit of anesthesia. I know anesthesia is probably impractical for little goats and maybe it's not even possible. It would certainly be expensive. I understand the argument, but still feel like it is an imhumane procedure. We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Yes, it's impractical because the risk of death is high.

 

[elevan]

RESPECT THE ANIMAL (HORNS OR NOT) ...that is really what this post really intended (I believe) and not to become a debate about the horned status of goats.

I completely understand the call for both sides. BUT it is a personal choice. Those who choose to leave the horns need to be aware of the added risk and take precautions. Those who disbud should also be aware of the risks to their goats when it comes to the procedure itself. As long as you understand the risks, then no one should have a problem with your taking them.

Some people think I'm harsh with my boys (human) because I constantly limit their "exposure" to certain situations with the animals and if they take a risk I'll pull them out of the situation and "yell" at them including giving them the reasons for the danger. I'm teaching my kids to be careful and not put themselves in danger...to respect the animal...but to love the animal. The 2 biggest dangers on my farm are the mini horse and 1 hornless goat.

As long as we respect the animal we are doing are part to be safe. Things happen sometimes, that's why they are called accidents. I would NEVER enter a field with a horned bull, but that's my choice...I will however enter a field with my horned bucks, being aware of them at all times and taking necessary precautions.

Freedom of choice...thank God that I live in American where I get to make the many choices that I do for myself, my family and my herd.

 

[Cara Peachick]

This has been an interesting discussion for me as I am getting disbudded LaMancha does at the end of this month, and (if all goes well) I'll have babies within a few months thereafter, so I'll need to decide whether to disbud or not.

I am leaning toward leaving them in their natural state. (I am also in the don't clip ears or tails of dogs camp.) Also, I understand that horns may play a role in cooling animals? However, I have young children, a livestock guardian dog, and (of course) fences they could get stuck in, etc. I also have those original 2 does, who have no horns and would likely move down the pecking order as a result. It's a tough one for me.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

 

[peachick]

My toughest doe is one that is naturally polled.
and my little black doe with horns never uses them.... but she has gottern her head stuck in the fence.

 

[elevan]

My herd queen is disbudded (prior to my getting her). And she is one tough goat! She puts everyone in their place horns or not!

 

[RioLindoAz]

The things people say in this discussion!
Who else finds this hilarious? Or am I just having one of my "days"?