sheep finally! mixed breed, size, and choosing ram questions

ohiogoatgirl

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HUZZAH!!! :celebrate:woot everything is about to be set up! keepin all my fingers and toes crossed! I am writing out *everything* I possibly can. I am sooo excited!

I just realized too that if I decide to get older ewes and a ram that i'll be bringin em home probably beginning of November and it would line up perfectly with my breeding time I had thought of already. so it will be an interesting day at her farm with all these things to think over as I choose! I will be calling her tomorrow to figure the best day to come out. and i'll be seeing her probably on Saturday at the spinners and weavers meeting. yippee!!!

back to my original post here, @Roving Jacobs mentioned the mule breeding system used in the UK to me. upon a bit of research I find that shetlands are regularly used with BFL, NC cheviot, border cheviot, etc rams! those lambs are sold off or used on the next breeding level with texel or other breed ram and supposedly have really awesome traits here for this tier system.
so.... BFL? those rams are supposed to be 200-250lbs! on little Shetland ewes!? well either the ewe decides a lot more of the lamb size than I would have guessed (like other animals experience I have) or they have some much bigger Shetland ewes than anything I have seen in person or online?
 

Roving Jacobs

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I don't know about shetlands but I've seen jacobs crossed with tunis, bfl, and border leicesters with no problems and jacobs are pretty teeny. They've been experienced ewes though and I'm not sure I'd do it with a first timer that would be more likely to have a single giant lamb.
 

purplequeenvt

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Shetland and Border Leicester person here......we also have Lincolns, Southdowns, and a few cross bred sheep too.

I would not breed anything Shetland sized to a big meaty Southdown type ram. A Border Leicester, BFL, or Cheviot would probably do ok since the lambs tend to have narrower heads and shoulders.

That being said, I had a big Romney ram breed one of my Shetland ewes a few years ago. Ram lamb was pure Shetland, but the ewe lamb was obviously a Romney cross. She was bigger than your normal Shetland lamb at 8 lbs, but her mother had no lambing issues.

I don't like late lambs. The late babies never grow as well. I had a very split lambing season this spring with a few lambs born in March/April, a surprise born 5/30, and the rest in the middle of June. The March/April babies are lovely and so is the 5/30 baby (an accidental half sibling mating, mom lambed at just barely a year old), but the June babies are still pathetic.

For my purposes, butchering a Shetland lamb isn't worth it. In fact, I rarely slaughter the Shetlands for our own consumption. At least not for cuts of meat. Too small. I'll grind most of the meat or use it as dog food. Growing them up to yearlings makes it a little more useful, but costs more. Some people like the smaller carcass size though.
 

ohiogoatgirl

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thanks roving Jacobs. that's about what I was thinkin too. have to use only your bigger and experienced ewes. I have been thinkin on things and if my doodling is accurate then I could get a ram to use the first two years breeding and save up a bit from fleece selling so that the third year I could sell/etc that ram and get another one to better fit my breeding goals than I could afford just starting out.

i am tryin to decide what to use and am stuck.
mineral is about $15 for 50#
producers pride all stock sweet feed 12%protein $8 for 50#
and for some reason i didnt get the price of the other feed but it should be between 8 and 14.

if i work out my mix ( 2 part alfalfa pellet, 1 part wheat, 1 part oat) it works out to about 13% protein and at my local prices being $14.40 per 50#. plus the bag of mineral to put out, but i cant factor that in until i see how soon they go through that.
so right now i think the all stock feed will save a good bit of money.
should I buy the all stock feed and have the mineral to put out through the year? I feel like yes but right now I am so excited and keep rethinking everything! Eeep! :)
 

ohiogoatgirl

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thanks @purplequeenvt ! that makes sense about the head shape. I guess if I want to try that I will have to watch for some babydoll etc ewes for sale and do it that way.
 

ohiogoatgirl

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:weee Sunday I will be going and picking out sheep! *super happy dance!* I may come home with lambs or grown and possibly bred ewes (possibly due end of February). I am just soooo excited!

the woman has a whole lot so I will come home with at least three and me and dad agreed that if i'm not really taken with others we can work with the woman and come back another time when she has more rounded up to look at.
 

ohiogoatgirl

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if I get several bred ewes and they lamb in February.. then next year those lambs will be about 8 months old for beginning of November when I was thinkin of putting the ram in.. so they *could* be big enough to all be bred whatever ewe lambs I kept back and would lamb at about 12/13 months old.

if I am able to, by like June maybe, have some more fence up so I could separate all the ram lambs from the ewes and ewe lambs... could I keep the ram lambs and not band/wether the best lookin two or so lambs, keep them and the wethers together, and then by probably September time I can decide which ram lamb I'd like to keep, sell off/butcher the others, and keep that ram lamb in the pen (maybe with one nice wooled wether?) until beginning of November for breeding..? I think that sounds good. lol lots of planning and a lot of things I am sure will change along the way as I learn more workin with them and things change.
but does the ram lambs thing sound good? that way I could use him for a year or two, sell him, and then probably bring in an unrelated ram that I like. probably would keep an eye out for something nice with good meat shape but that wont be too big for the ewes.
 

purplequeenvt

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Personally, I would get the bred ewes and when they lamb, castrate any and all rams. Keep the ewe lambs that you like and buy a completely unrelated ram.

Unless this lady has kept extensive records, you don't know who is related to who so you could be breeding already closely related sheep. Not necessarily a problem, but you could run into issues depending on how "inbred" they are.

This also gives you time to get more fence set up.

We don't breed ewe lambs here. BUT other people do. The decision to bred lambs or not has a lot to do with your goals. If your goal is production and to get as many lambs as possible out of your ewes, then breed those lambs. Just be prepared for a higher risk of lambing trouble (due to the ewe's immature size) and possibly more rejected/bummer lambs (due to the ewe's immature brain). Remember, she's still basically a baby herself.

That being said, people breed ewe lambs all the time with no issues. You will just need to be prepared to feed them enough so that they reach a size that is safe to breed and to watch closely during lambing. My best mother this spring was a just barely year old Shetland ewe that got bred accidentally (through a fence!!!) to her half brother. The resulting lamb is gorgeous and the ewe raised her with no help from anyone and continued to grow herself.
 

Bossroo

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Your best bet for return on investment is a sheep that is being used comercially as they carry the best genetics for increased yields . The others will cost much more in carrying cost and lesson profit or result in a loss. The IRS frowns on ventures that result in a loss.
 
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