Something I feel needs saying....

[glenolam]

We should all remember that we're here to trade thoughts, not be put down for them.

REALLY?! Wow.

REALLY. Which is why I've never put anyone down for their thoughts.

 

[helmstead]

REALLY. Which is why I've never put anyone down for their thoughts.

Well, at least not on THIS board.

The mental picture I got from that was priceless.....

I imagine disbudding a kid out in the garage/barn. Man holding goat down, woman disbudding with iron. Kid/Another adult standing by watching.

Woman: OK. I think I've got it - do ya see the skull yet?

Man: Nope - keep going.

Woman: OK........how bout now? Looks good to me.

Man: Yep - kid/other adult, go over yonder and grab that peice of shurd the dog left out last night....that one, yes, that one right there. Looks sharp enough, eh?

Woman: Sure does. That'll git her done.

Kid/Other adult: This shurd's stuck to the ground. I can't get it off.

Woman: Oh for Pete's sake. *runs over with sterile knife and cuts the shurd off the ground* THERE.

 

[glenolam]

Gee...didn't know that was putting you down for your thoughts/ideas. Guess I also can't make light of a tense situation, either. Guess you missed the entire post where I agreed with you.

So much for not being put down for my thoughts. Great example.

 

[helmstead]

Oh, you mean this?

You know, I've been thinking about this.

I can see the 'burn to the skull' point a little. If you actually remove the entire bud when the kid is young by literally burning the outer perimeter off then literally cutting the entire bud off, one might assume the chance for scurs to grow is greatly reduced because the bud was completely removed. In my mind, if it's gone it's gone and has no chance to regrow back into the skull.

The pictures that I saw seemed very clean cut. Must have taken a very steady hand and I would assume there's little to no infection with open wounds like that only because they looked very clean. As long as you keep them clean I wouldn't see why that method wouldn't work.

But there's that ethical side of me that says it's just not necessary to put the kid through that. I'm pretty thick skinned when it comes to stuff (I have to hide my iron from myself right now because I want to go back and reburn my girls!!) but I can't see myself massacreing a kid's head by burning with that much pressure to cause a burn down to the skull in less than 5 seconds and then cutting off a peice of their head with a sterile knife.

Anyhoo....]

Excuse me while I don't find that agreeing with me. Actually, you call it unethical, accuse me of massacring my goats.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

Oh, you mean this?

You know, I've been thinking about this.

I can see the 'burn to the skull' point a little. If you actually remove the entire bud when the kid is young by literally burning the outer perimeter off then literally cutting the entire bud off, one might assume the chance for scurs to grow is greatly reduced because the bud was completely removed. In my mind, if it's gone it's gone and has no chance to regrow back into the skull.

The pictures that I saw seemed very clean cut. Must have taken a very steady hand and I would assume there's little to no infection with open wounds like that only because they looked very clean. As long as you keep them clean I wouldn't see why that method wouldn't work.

But there's that ethical side of me that says it's just not necessary to put the kid through that. I'm pretty thick skinned when it comes to stuff (I have to hide my iron from myself right now because I want to go back and reburn my girls!!) but I can't see myself massacreing a kid's head by burning with that much pressure to cause a burn down to the skull in less than 5 seconds and then cutting off a peice of their head with a sterile knife.

Anyhoo....]

Excuse me while I don't find that agreeing with me. Actually, you call it unethical, accuse me of massacring my goats.

So what are you saying, that it's ok for you and Rolls to be blunt (rude) when using the excuse of goat welfare, but it's not ok for it to happen to you?

Really this whole dramatic thing is being blown out of proportion. Some people said some things in disagreement w/ your management practices in someone's journal on another forum. Someone tattled to you and you got your feelings hurt. Nobody said anything attacking you personally, just disagreeing with your practices. You refuse to listen when Glen said no harm was meant by it.



So that's it. Y'all can play "poor me" if you want, but I'm done with it. Enjoy your goats.

Please keep private issues private. Do not post PMs or emails on open forum

 

[glenolam]

OK, Kate. You win. You're right. You're better than me and you've never once been rude or snarky yourself.

Never once did I say what you did was unethical. Never. Never once did I call you out anywhere and say what you were doing was wrong. I said your pictures were clean cut and I could see how the possibility for infection was slim. I thought I was applauding you. I said I could see your point, but there was a side of me that didn't agree with it - I called it my ethical side. Take it for what it's worth.

So much for me expressing my thoughts and opionons out loud on another forum. But thanks for dragging it on over.

I'm glenolam over on Sufficient Self, everyone. Please read my personal journal to keep up to date with me if you'd like.

Guess another member has just left BYH now. Thanks for all the good times - may every one have a little sense of humor every now and then.

G'day from one of the bad eggs.

 

[cmjust0]

Something I feel needs saying is that it really irritates me when someone gets their feelers hurt, puffs up, and decides to take their marbles and go to the house, and then everybody piles on begging them "PLEASE DON'T GO!!" That alone is a little much..

But what irritates me even worse than that is when the puffer-upper doesn't *actually* take their marbles anywhere after threatening it..

Kinda makes me wonder if they just wanted the satisfaction of seeing how many people would beg them to stay.

:/

 

[PattySh]

Kate, I'm glad you are still here. Your animals are beautiful.
I've only been here a short time and you are a wealth of information.
I'm have no what all the issues were about but I hope things have settled down and you'll stay.
I am not picking favorites, I hope no one leaves and everyone is a wealth of information.

My thoughts on the hard feelings showing up on this board are:
I think it's wonderful and applaud the fact that there is no critizing those breeding pedigree show animals and those preferring grade milkers or pet animals, or meat or fiber animals. That in itself if unheard of in the canine world online!!

To everyone I don't think it takes #'s of animals to be a good caretaker and know your stuff, Someone with one or a few animals can be as knowlegeable as someone with 100. I've also seen the small sheds and barns with a few goats that are awesome and some that are horrific and large barns with 100+ that are wonderful and barns with 100 goats that shouldn't own one. It doesn't take a grand barn and fancy tools to be able to give advice either. I've seen alot of different "farms" in my day and surprised and horrified equally.

I think if we've found this site it was the willingness to learn and help our animals and we all need to remember that and be respectful to those that are trying to help. I think the responses given should be personal experiences and knowledge. Tried and true. Take the info that works for you, leave the rest and be respectful. When in doubt ask your vet. If you are not feeling at all confident maybe you need to find a mentor.

 

[helmstead]

Something I feel needs saying is that it really irritates me when someone gets their feelers hurt, puffs up, and decides to take their marbles and go to the house, and then everybody piles on begging them "PLEASE DON'T GO!!" That alone is a little much..

But what irritates me even worse than that is when the puffer-upper doesn't *actually* take their marbles anywhere after threatening it..

Kinda makes me wonder if they just wanted the satisfaction of seeing how many people would beg them to stay.

:/

I said I'd be lurking...not leaving.

 

[Our7Wonders]

then everybody piles on begging them "PLEASE DON'T GO!!" That alone is a little much..
:/

While I must admit that it scares the hell out of me to disagree with you (really!) I must say that, at least in my case, it's not a matter of tyring to smooth out ruffled feathers, but instead a matter of hoping to keep someone around that has a wealth of knowledge to share.

Even though you scare me I'd do the same if you were considering leaving. I whole heartedly mean it when I say that I value your opinion - as well as Rolls and Helmstead and anyone else I've seen that may be a little more bold and blunt than I'm used to. I may be a little afraid to disagree with any of you - but that's just becasue I'm a little more timid and hate confrontation. But I know you have the goats best interest in mind. While I don't consider anyone's word the be all and end all to everything goat - I will consider what any of you have to say - because I can tell from your posts that you guys have been there and done that - and maybe even bought a T-shirt.

So I'm not stroking any feathers or tyring to beg anyone to stick around - but if the knowledge goes I think we all will suffer, at least a little, for it.