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Sudden death or scam.

Discussion in 'Diseases & Injuries - Pigs' started by Fortheloveofhen, Dec 17, 2017.

  1. Dec 17, 2017
    Goat Whisperer

    Goat Whisperer Herd Master

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    I agree, it's odd that they wouldn't bring the body back. The necropsy is a good plan as well.

    Sadly, you have to be careful with things like this. People can do really stupid things with animals. Thankfully I have never had a goat die after I sold it- but I have heard some terrible stories from other breeders.
    I would consider doing a refund AFTER I get results from a necropsy.
     
    secuono and Pastor Dave like this.
  2. Dec 17, 2017
    greybeard

    greybeard Herd Master

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    Same here, and it works both ways. I buy one, hand the money over and load it on my trailer, once the gate shuts, if it keels over black flag dead, all I can or will say is MY cow died.

    Not trying to be a butt about it, and have no idea if this is a scam, but refund with not even a dead pig to prove it died?
    Not a chance. Only exception to that sort of thing would be if it were a repeat customer of good standing and I had either verbally or in writing made a commitment to guarantee the good health and longevity of the animal, and any such guarantee from me would be limited to weeks, not hrs or days.
     
  3. Dec 18, 2017
    misfitmorgan

    misfitmorgan Herd Master

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    I do know a fair bit about pigs and i agree with your vet friend. The only cause i could think of would be twisted gut but that i not really common in pigs.

    Worms, Cocci, E Coli, etc would take longer even in a small pig and would have symptoms you could see. This definatly sounds like a scam to me. No body = no refund

    What would be the reasoning behind not returning the body? They can't possibly say they were that attached in only 3hrs that they cant bare to part with the body.

    About this worming your doing..... you said every 6 months FOR 2 weeks? As in your doing them for 14 consecutive days?
     
  4. Dec 18, 2017
    greybeard

    greybeard Herd Master

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    :hide
    1. Maybe they had a Latestarter moment and the pig escaped before they ever got home with it.
    2. It is the holidays..the sight of the pig with fortheloveofhen's apple in it's mouth was just too much and they ate the carcass? :hu
    :hide
     
    promiseacres likes this.
  5. Dec 18, 2017
    Latestarter

    Latestarter Novice; "Practicing" Animal Husbandry Golden Herd Member

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    Ouch GB... thanks for the reminder... o_O Gotta own it though, it happened. :(
     
  6. Dec 19, 2017
    Fortheloveofhen

    Fortheloveofhen Exploring the pasture

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    I worm 1 day but 2 weeks in a row, so once every 7 days for 2 weeks in a row. I do this every 6 months give or take, and depending on when my sows are due.

    ... well now they are saying they will return the pig, so I will see if I can send the body out somewhere if I get it back. This whole thing has been so weird. I will definitely be putting something about sudden death I my contracts. And I'm hoping that this wasn't buyers remorse that turned into murder. They sent me a pic of the pig on his side so maybe he did pass suddenly and if so i feel awful and am happy to give their money back. Even if he got into something its still kinda on me because they didnt get there info packet right away and maybe the husband didnt remember that he needed to take is easy on the piglet until he was comfortable. Is strange... husband dosent want a refund but the wife dose, and I have no problem refund there money if he suddenly died.

    It may have been stress. They introduced him to theit 5 dogs on the first night and maybe that did it for him and he passed.

    Now I just need them to bring his body if he is gone, and see if I can find somewhere to send the body for cause of death. My other piglets seem fine. One has a little swelling after his castration. I think the guy who did it made the incesions too small and didn't cut far enough down the little tubes. I'm going to keep him a while and give him some antibiotics since it looks bad to me, but all the others are up and perfectly healthy.

    I might also see if my pigs have the stress gene. Idk if the autopsie will tell me, but I'm sure my vet can check. If one of my sows Is passing it on I will stop breeding her.
     
  7. Dec 19, 2017
    Baymule

    Baymule Herd Master

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    I wonder why the change, they are now willing to return the pig. Make sure you remember these two, never sell them anything again. Save their phone number so you'll know it's them if they call.

    They probably did something wrong, like introducing all 5 dogs, and the poor pig went into shock and died.
     
  8. Dec 19, 2017
    farmerjan

    farmerjan Herd Master

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    I would say that it may very well have been shock/stress. A whole pack of new dogs would give any animal a stress treatment. Glad they are willing to bring it back and hope you can get it checked out. I really think it was not your fault and if there was an issue that you couldn't see, internal or something, then this is the only way of knowing.
     
  9. Dec 20, 2017
    hollymh

    hollymh Chillin' with the herd

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    Have them bring you the pig and have a necropsy done, if it is from him choking on the apple I would refund them. I would not refund unless they brought me the pig, that's too shady.
     
  10. Dec 20, 2017
    AlaynaMayGoatLady

    AlaynaMayGoatLady Chillin' with the herd

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    I agree with what everyone else is saying. Around here, once stock is paid for and on the trailer, it's the buyer's for good. If it dies, too bad. Of course, as an honest seller, if it is evident that something I did wrong caused the death, then I will refund them, but so far this has never happened. We did have an incident a few years ago where we sold some healthy ducks, and they died 2 or 3 days later. The buyers never asked for a refund and we did not offer one because the ducks were healthy when picked up.
    DEFINITELY don't even consider giving them a refund unless you see the body and prove that they didn't try to scam you. Make sure nothing crazy happened (like drowning, poisoning, etc.) I know it's kind of bad and scary to mention that possibility, but sometimes people do bad and scary things.

    Now, on a slightly different note - the pet market is TOTALLY different from stock. If you are raising pet pigs (which it sounds like you are) it would be wise to draw up a contract and specify how long you guarantee their health. I raise Border collies and specify in the contract that the buyer has 48 hours to get the pup checked by a vet. I list the health checks the parents and pups have had, and state that if the pup develops hip dysplasia by its second birthday, I will make it right with the buyer. I also state that the pup is in good health at the time of pick up. (If it isn't in good health, I won't let it be picked up.) Consider adding a clause that you aren't responsible for any accidents or non-disease related sudden death, and cannot give a refund. You may already have something like this drawn up, but if not, consider it and make sure the buyer READS the contract before signing it. You keep one copy, they keep one copy. This just helps keep problems from developing in the first place because everyone already understands each other.
    I hope everything turns out okay for you.