Testicles?

[Rescuechick76]

Here is an article about horns- I need to update
http://www.backyardherds.com/resources/horns-dis-bud-polled.31/

At the bottom of the article it tells Millie's story ( I think the link starts on page 2 but you can go back and read the dilemma from the start)
http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/de-horned-2yr-old-doe-week-3-update.28257/page-2#post-358403

Thanks for sharing. Do you know if they have to be a certain length before it can be done? I work with a vet who said it can't be done until you can grab onto them. How long did you have to keep bandages on her?

 

[Southern by choice]

No they can be done before it is really about how each vet does the procedure.
For Millie- about 6 weeks til fully closed. 3weeks in the holes were substantially smaller.

On a mature buck with big horns it could take a LONG time!
Bucks have a much LARGER base than a doe so getting it does sooner would be better. If you have lots of flies than wait til the weather turns- like September. Fly strike is horrible. But you want to do it before full blown rut, because they pee all over themselves, and it would be nasty to deal with.

 

[Rescuechick76]

No they can be done before it is really about how each vet does the procedure.
For Millie- about 6 weeks til fully closed. 3weeks in the holes were substantially smaller.

On a mature buck with big horns it could take a LONG time!
Bucks have a much LARGER base than a doe so getting it does sooner would be better. If you have lots of flies than wait til the weather turns- like September. Fly strike is horrible. But you want to do it before full blown rut, because they pee all over themselves, and it would be nasty to deal with.

He won't go through rut if we make sure the testicles are taken care of...right?

 

[alsea1]

I have a mixed herd. One doe has a full little set of horns.
I have a buck that is horned and one dwarf that was disbudded.
I have my queen who has one horn.
I also have a doe that is disbudded.
All get along and I have not had any injuries to either handlers or fellow herd mates.
My plan is to disbud nest year all doe kids. But since all males are slated for the freezer I only plan on banding and leaving horns alone
I have had to go get one out of the feeder. Since then the feeder was adj. so that would not happen again.
I no longer worry much about the horns being problematic in my group.

Some bucks are smellier than others and behave differently. My nigi dwarf is very mellow and peaceful even in rut. My spanish buck is also quite easy going.

I got rid of the buck that was a monster part of the year.

 

[sadieml]

Welcome to BYH, @Rescuechick76 ! We got our 2 nigie boys last Sept. when they were 2 wks. They are our babies. We are trying to get our little buckling to breed 2 does for a friend, right now, but they are full grown and therefore larger than Jaeger, so he is still a little timid. He gets bolder with them each days, though, so hopefully by the time constant exposure to him brings them into season, he'll be more than up to the task!

I did a moderate amount of research before we got our boys, and still felt like I was swimming in the ocean when we actually got them. So much of caring for goats is hands-on, experience-guided knowledge. Until you are faced with an issue, you don't really know what to ask. The wonderful BYH-ers you have already met, SBC, baymule, latestarter, goat whisperer, etc. literally helped me save our boys when they bloated around 8 weeks. They are happy and healthy today because of these awesome people. So sorry you didn't have a mentor at first, the breeder we got our boys from knew enough to get us through dis-budding (he burned them around 12 days), and banding on Janick at about 8 weeks (after his testicles dropped). Now we're paying it back by breeding 2 of his does. PLUS, hopefully we'll get a doe out of one or both!

Also, you'd be surprised about the make-up of the folks here. Most of us really are small, backyard farmers. We have just under 4 acres, not counting the dirt road, and so far just a small garden, 2 nigies (1 buck, 1 wether), and a total of 10 roos, hens, & drag queens, and one chick. The drag queens are Maria and Valerie, sold as hens, apparently aged out, and so NOT laying, but they crow up a storm. They do NOT act like roos, they act like hens, just crow and won't lay. Ah, well, live and learn. They sure are sweeties, though. We're just taking things as they come, and thank the Good Lord, we found BYH and the wonderful people here to help with all of the rough spots. Hang in there! You're in for a bumpy and glorious ride! This is really living!!!

 

[Southern by choice]

Yes, castration generally takes care of that.

@alsea1 that is how it started out with us but things changed.
Our bucks are lovey and sweet but sorry no freaking way will I do horns on any of my dairy goat bucks. Kikos yes, dairy goats NO.

We had a family member years ago taken down by a larger Nigerian Dwarf mix with horns... had her on the ground horns ripped her pants right off her thigh/buttocks area when he went to go after her again. My sons flew over the fence and got hold of him but it took two very big older teens (near adults) to pull this boy back. The buck was only 100 lbs.

It wasn't our buck... it was given to us because the buck was crazy destroying fences and aggressive whenever a doe was in heat. Being the people had Nigies... that was every three weeks. He was at our place to go to processors. The day it happened a doe had just gone into heat and I guess the scent was there and wham.
Those horns could have easily gored. NO way. No horns. No how.

I really liked horns. My vets kept telling me horns were a bad idea. But I liked them. I had no issues with them.
I learned. Thankfully no dead animals, no dead or maimed humans.

Like OFA said- we learn as we go.

Sometimes what works for a few animals may not work later. We have 47 goats. or 42 or 43 or somthing like that... not taking chances.

 

[alsea1]

I would prefer no horns myself.
But this is what I have. I'm not much good at getting rid of the animals that are part of the breeding group that have proved themselves capable. LOL But if nec. I will.
Tennis balls could take the edge off of horns I suppose with no risk. Or the pvc bar. LOL Insta handle bar if nec.

 

[Latestarter]

IMHO:
I don't know why everyone is using the term cruel... It's NOT cruel at all. It's a medical procedure that is for the better of the goat as well as the owners and anyone/thing else that will be around those horns. It would have been far better for all concerned had the goat been born polled, or been disbudded while it was doable. That's not the way it is, so no sense dwelling on those aspects. In the strictest sense, removing a goat's testes is also removing a body part the goat was born with and is done for the better of the goat and owners. Because that's become a routine procedure doesn't make it "less cruel" than removing horns.

It is not a simple procedure and there are risks associated with it (the surgical procedure), not the least of which being the anesthesia. Those risks increase in a major way as the goat gets older and the horns become a more fixed/permanent/major/thicker/heavier portion of the skull covering the nasal cavity. Even more of an issue with bucks, as they typically grow larger/heavier horns. Doing this procedure while the goat is still young gives the best possibility for quick and complete healing of the area as the goat is in "grow mode" and should heal much easier and faster than an adult having the same procedure done.

As for when, and your vet says they have to be big enough to get hold of, it's probably because it's easier for him to hold them and maneuver the head/horns while removing them. Much harder to deal with if you can't get a'hold of them I imagine. Also, as was mentioned, you need to take other factors like flies into account and though it would be better in late fall when there are none (fewer - I've had flies show up in my garage in the middle of winter), the longer you wait, the more complex/difficult/invasive/dangerous the procedure becomes. Everything is about trade-offs. Since goats like to stick their heads in the dirt/mud/whatever, you'll need to keep the area covered (but "breathable") regardless of when it's done.

Every person has their own set of guiding principles and do what works best for them and their animals. Some things are pretty much universal like feeding them and providing water and shelter. Another is trying to keep them safe and secure. After that, it's all about choice. What works for one may not be the ideal for another. If you choose to have his horns removed it's not cruel and you're not cruel for doing so. MHO

 

[Rescuechick76]

Welcome to BYH, @Rescuechick76 ! We got our 2 nigie boys last Sept. when they were 2 wks. They are our babies. We are trying to get our little buckling to breed 2 does for a friend, right now, but they are full grown and therefore larger than Jaeger, so he is still a little timid. He gets bolder with them each days, though, so hopefully by the time constant exposure to him brings them into season, he'll be more than up to the task!

I did a moderate amount of research before we got our boys, and still felt like I was swimming in the ocean when we actually got them. So much of caring for goats is hands-on, experience-guided knowledge. Until you are faced with an issue, you don't really know what to ask. The wonderful BYH-ers you have already met, SBC, baymule, latestarter, goat whisperer, etc. literally helped me save our boys when they bloated around 8 weeks. They are happy and healthy today because of these awesome people. So sorry you didn't have a mentor at first, the breeder we got our boys from knew enough to get us through dis-budding (he burned them around 12 days), and banding on Janick at about 8 weeks (after his testicles dropped). Now we're paying it back by breeding 2 of his does. PLUS, hopefully we'll get a doe out of one or both!

Also, you'd be surprised about the make-up of the folks here. Most of us really are small, backyard farmers. We have just under 4 acres, not counting the dirt road, and so far just a small garden, 2 nigies (1 buck, 1 wether), and a total of 10 roos, hens, & drag queens, and one chick. The drag queens are Maria and Valerie, sold as hens, apparently aged out, and so NOT laying, but they crow up a storm. They do NOT act like roos, they act like hens, just crow and won't lay. Ah, well, live and learn. They sure are sweeties, though. We're just taking things as they come, and thank the Good Lord, we found BYH and the wonderful people here to help with all of the rough spots. Hang in there! You're in for a bumpy and glorious ride! This is really living!!!

Thank you! Yes...very grateful to have found this page!!

 

[Rescuechick76]

IMHO:
I don't know why everyone is using the term cruel... It's NOT cruel at all. It's a medical procedure that is for the better of the goat as well as the owners and anyone/thing else that will be around those horns. It would have been far better for all concerned had the goat been born polled, or been disbudded while it was doable. That's not the way it is, so no sense dwelling on those aspects. In the strictest sense, removing a goat's testes is also removing a body part the goat was born with and is done for the better of the goat and owners. Because that's become a routine procedure doesn't make it "less cruel" than removing horns.

It is not a simple procedure and there are risks associated with it (the surgical procedure), not the least of which being the anesthesia. Those risks increase in a major way as the goat gets older and the horns become a more fixed/permanent/major/thicker/heavier portion of the skull covering the nasal cavity. Even more of an issue with bucks, as they typically grow larger/heavier horns. Doing this procedure while the goat is still young gives the best possibility for quick and complete healing of the area as the goat is in "grow mode" and should heal much easier and faster than an adult having the same procedure done.

As for when, and your vet says they have to be big enough to get hold of, it's probably because it's easier for him to hold them and maneuver the head/horns while removing them. Much harder to deal with if you can't get a'hold of them I imagine. Also, as was mentioned, you need to take other factors like flies into account and though it would be better in late fall when there are none (fewer - I've had flies show up in my garage in the middle of winter), the longer you wait, the more complex/difficult/invasive/dangerous the procedure becomes. Everything is about trade-offs. Since goats like to stick their heads in the dirt/mud/whatever, you'll need to keep the area covered (but "breathable") regardless of when it's done.

Every person has their own set of guiding principles and do what works best for them and their animals. Some things are pretty much universal like feeding them and providing water and shelter. Another is trying to keep them safe and secure. After that, it's all about choice. What works for one may not be the ideal for another. If you choose to have his horns removed it's not cruel and you're not cruel for doing so. MHO

I don't want the horns, but I am worried about the procedure/recovery. This topic is similar to the opinions people have on declawing cats. I work at a humane society and some people are totally against it. I personally feel like if they are gonna live in my house for twenty years they are not gonna destroy my furniture. Yes, that too is better done while they are young and no it shouldn't be done if they go outside. Maybe I should look at it that way and I'll feel better about it. I'm just frustrated with the fact that it all should've been taken care of a long time ago.