what is getting my goats?

Goat Whisperer

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I think there would be SOME evidence is if is a 4 legged predator. :idunno

I think my goats would scream if a stranger went to take one of them, although nobody could get past the LGD's.

Hope you find the issue soon!
 

storm1

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we are still working on the LGD issue.our GP were too old and the new one was too friendly.our donkey would kill the goats so right now there is nothing to protect them.
 

HeidiO

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I keep checking in to find the answer to this mystery.
 

storm1

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nothing yet.we are putting her back out today.i will post with an update soon:fl
 

greybeard

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thanks HeidiO,
"we have :
coyotes
foxes
bobcats
humans
bear or cougar??"

i was thinking human just because of no remains.
we have no roads around the property except the front and that is where they are penned.nothing has happened there.the property is surrounded by large property on 3 sides by good neighbors.i know it is not them but not saying someone is not trespassing thru.my neighbors would take care of any trespassers seen.

i also have never had a problem with vultures looking for a kill either.the goats seem to just vanish.
wouldn't coyotes make noises?i have heard them at my other place at night but never have heard them here.

what do people take the goats for?to eat.money?kinda give me an idea of who to look for.

regardless, a predator is a predator.
Pretty difficult for any of us to answer any of your questions without having a clue where you live.

Contrary to popular belief, lions such as cougar do not kill solely for food, for that matter, no feline does. They kill as part of their instinctive interactions--it's a game. Out in sheep country, it's fairly common to find a dozen or more dead sheep where a cougar has paid a visit the night before. Same with goats, and sometimes with cattle. The cat may drag it's kill to a very secluded place and eat the viscera of one, but will leave the others lying where they were killed. It's extremely rare that a big cat will go into a herd or flock and only kill one animal. Considering they are just having fun, same as a well fed house cat does stalking a mouse, bird or frog, they aren't satisfied with just killing one of the herd. They'll kill till they just get tired. They are, top of the food chain in their environment, cautious, but really fearing nothing.


Feral dogs tend to run livestock to death, biting just enough to make the animal run rather than using teeth and claws to actually kill. Most times, they'll run them into water where they drown too exhausted to swim or even stand. Otherwise, they'll run them thru, under, over a fence.
Don't discount your local adorable Fidos and little Fluffys either--I have never seen a domestic dog that wouldn't 'join in' under most circumstances.
Yes, coyotes, unles operating solo, make lots of noise, just as feral dogs do, and the tell tale signs of both is they leave behind include bloody ears, bloody tail switches, chewed up hocks. On the young, like baby calves or sheep, they will chew on them once they are down or dead, usually the midsection--the guts.

Bobcats or fox taking a goat? I doubt it. I think you have a people problem.

Some reading for you from wildlife and range management professionals:

Cougar Predation – Description
Cougars attempt to stalk their prey and attack from cover. They frequently kill sheep and goats by biting the top of the neck or head. Broken necks are common in these kills. This differs from the typical coyote bite in the throat and general mutilation caused by dogs. However, cougars also may kill sheep and goats by biting the throat. This may result from prey falling or being knocked down and caught, or it may simply be the method found effective by individual cougars and most convenient on some prey animals. Cougars may kill by grasping the head of prey such as sheep, goats and deer and pulling the head until the neck is broken. Many of these may not have been bitten but die quickly. Cougars kill calves much like they do sheep and goats. Multiple kills of sheep and goats by cougars are common; cases of a hundred or more animals killed in a single incident have been recorded. As a rule, very few animals, often only one or two in such incidents, are fed upon by the cougar.

Cougars usually kill larger animals, such as deer, elk, horses and cattle, by leaping on their shoulders or back and biting the neck. Claw marks on the neck, back and shoulders are characteristic of these kills. The prey animal’s neck may be broken by bites or by the animal failing from the attack. There may also be bites in the throat of these larger prey. The size of the canine tooth punctures and the type of bone damage help distinguish cougar kills from those made by coyotes, dogs and foxes. An adult cougar’s upper canine teeth are approximately 1 1/2 to 2 1/4 inches apart; the lower teeth are approximately 3/8 to 1/2 inch closer together. A cougar’s teeth are massive compared to those of the average coyote or bobcat.

Except when prey is scarce, cougars do not normally feed on carrion other than their own kills or possibly those taken away from other predators. They usually carry or drag their kills to a secluded area under cover to feed and drag marks are frequently found at fresh kill sites. Cougars generally begin feeding on the viscera (liver, heart, lungs, etc.) through the abdomen or thorax but like other carnivores, individuals differ. Some begin feeding on the neck or shoulder while others prefer the hindquarters. Like other cats, cougars normally leave relatively clean-cut edges when they feed compared to the ragged edges of tissue and bone left by coyotes. They also may break large bones in feeding on domestic and wild animals.

Cougars frequently try to cover their kills with soil, vegetation (leaves, grass, limbs) or snow. They may eviscerate prey and cover the viscera separately from the rest of the carcass. Even where little debris is available, bits of soil, rock, grass or sticks may be found on the carcass. However, where multiple kills are made at one time, there may be no effort to cover more than one or two of them.

Cougar “scrapes” or “scratches”, composed of mounds of soil, grass, leaves, or snow, are probably a means of communication with other cougars. These scrapes are generally 6 to 8 inches high and urine is deposited on the mounds. Male cougars appear to make scrapes as territorial markers around their kills and near trails and deposit urine and feces on them; these markers may be considerably larger than others, up to 2 feet long, 12 inches wide and 6 to 8 inches high in some cases.

Cougar tracks are relatively round and rarely show any claw marks since the claws are normally retracted. Tracks of large adult males’ front feet may be 4 inches or more long and about the same or slightly less in width. The hind tracks are slightly smaller. The rear pads of the feet are distinctively different from those of other carnivores. Typically, there are two lobes in front and three on the rear of the rear pads although there are individual variations. With extensive experience, some hunters can recognize individual cougars by their tracks, even without distinctive features such as missing toes or other deformities.
 

storm1

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thank you for your tips.
i did put that i live in ga in my original post but milledgville ga to be exact.
i don't think cougars are a problem.
haven't had anymore disappear since i put one out in a cage.it may have scared off a human predator tho.
 

HeidiO

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Maybe go with the original fencing setup you had, don't change pens, but set up cams in a place they would catch the most traffic.
 

purplequeenvt

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@greybeard

"Pretty difficult for any of us to answer any of your questions without having a clue where you live.

Contrary to popular belief, lions such as cougar do not kill solely for food, for that matter, no feline does. They kill as part of their instinctive interactions--it's a game. Out in sheep country, it's fairly common to find a dozen or more dead sheep where a cougar has paid a visit the night before. Same with goats, and sometimes with cattle. The cat may drag it's kill to a very secluded place and eat the viscera of one, but will leave the others lying where they were killed. It's extremely rare that a big cat will go into a herd or flock and only kill one animal. Considering they are just having fun, same as a well fed house cat does stalking a mouse, bird or frog, they aren't satisfied with just killing one of the herd. They'll kill till they just get tired. They are, top of the food chain in their environment, cautious, but really fearing nothing.


Feral dogs tend to run livestock to death, biting just enough to make the animal run rather than using teeth and claws to actually kill. Most times, they'll run them into water where they drown too exhausted to swim or even stand. Otherwise, they'll run them thru, under, over a fence.
Don't discount your local adorable Fidos and little Fluffys either--I have never seen a domestic dog that wouldn't 'join in' under most circumstances.
Yes, coyotes, unles operating solo, make lots of noise, just as feral dogs do, and the tell tale signs of both is they leave behind include bloody ears, bloody tail switches, chewed up hocks. On the young, like baby calves or sheep, they will chew on them once they are down or dead, usually the midsection--the guts.

Bobcats or fox taking a goat? I doubt it. I think you have a people problem.

Some reading for you from wildlife and range management professionals"

Your coyote statement may be true part of the time, but not always. We lost a sheep a couple years ago right behind our barns which are very close to the house. There were 2 sheep in a pasture with a couple cows. The sheep were supposed to go into a paddock at night for safety, but these 2 had refused to go with the rest that night. I went out to milk the cow and at first I only noticed something was wrong because one of the ewes was laying down by the fence when normally she'd be out grazing already. Upon inspection (again, I discovered punctures to her face and neck. There was no sign of the other ewe except one downed wire on the fence. Eventually I found her carcass in the woods were they had very expertly herded her before killing. Not a peep was heard in the house, not the tiniest pieces of wool left behind. If it weren't for the inexperienced pup that bit the other sheep and the fact that there were only 2 sheep in that field, you wouldn't have known one was missing.
 

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