Wolfemomma - Our Homestead Journey

[WolfeMomma]

Well, We finally got around to starting some of our seeds indoors so we have a bit of a jump on the growing season. So far my flowers that I plan on using for fresh cut flowers have come up first, and are doing awesome so far considering this is my first time ever starting seeds, and well I don't think we really have all the proper equipment, but oh well you have to make the best of what you have sometimes. The vegetable seeds were just put in the other day, so hopefully those germinate as well as my flowers have so far.
Finally the snow is melting, getting a lot of rain today, hopefully it can put a dent in the snow. I miss seeing green grass!
Does anyone on here have instagram for their homestead? We do its northwolfefarm Please follow, and if not no worries I'm sure I will rant enough on here to keep you updated lol

We have been rolling around the idea of getting a jersey cow, butter and milk is getting so expensive here, it would almost be cheaper to feed the cow, then to buy butter at the store
I can easily spend 24$ or more on butter a month :O that doesn't include all the milk and cream we use. sigh.... but would a milk cow be a good option? I don't want like 5 gallons of milk a day...it will not be used i know
that for sure. Maybe a mini jersey, I heard they give a little less? Any dairy people on here want to chime in ?
Anyway, until next time!

 

[Wehner Homestead]

No dairy cow experience. I have dairy goats though. I’m starting a line of Mini Lamanchas. Better feed conversion is a smaller animal with high milk production for size! Size is more manageable than a bovine...

Also, you can freeze milk for later use. A dairy cow will need bred yearly to continue milking so you could store for downtime. Also need a plan for artificial insemination or a bull (difficult to contain and dairy bulls are known for being cantankerous.)

A calf could be left on the cow for 6 mos so you’d be sharing milk too...

Extra milk could be fed to pigs and/or chickens.

Just some thoughts.

I’ll tag two people that I know have Minis and another that uses dairy cows as nurse cows and makes rounds on dairy farms as an inspector.

@Goat Whisperer @Southern by choice @farmerjan

 

[farmerjan]

There are several thoughts to dairy cattle. I have been around them for over 40 years. First off, the "MINI COW " market is expensive. Yes they are smaller. Yes they produce less milk. There is another whole thing about breeding. They tend to not be as fertile, getting them bred AI is difficult. You pretty much need to have your own bull or use of a neighbors mini bull. I would never breed a mini cow to a normal sized bull. A normal cow to a mini bull would be okay. But it is just asking for some complications to have a mini dairy animal. Now, a Dexter, is smaller but is not a true "mini". They can be bred to jerseys, or a calving ease angus with not too much concern. We have two easy calving angus bulls that we use on our heifers, and the calves are usually in the 50-65 lb range.

A decent jersey cow will make an average 5 gal a day in the early part of her lactation. If she has a calf, that calf can easily consume 1 gal or more a day. A couple of pigs would make short work of the extra milk also. Yes you can freeze some too. Or raise an extra calf, instead of bottle feeding it, let the two calves nurse the cow and you get the rest. There are several ways to do it. Some people let the calf(calves) stay with the cow for 12 hours then take them away and then milk the cow, then let the calves go back with the cow for 12 hours. In essence you are milking once a day the calves are getting the 2nd milking worth of milk. There are different ways to get a cow to take a "grafted" calf.

You are talking about how much milk, cream, butter costs. But, a cow isn't cheap to keep. A decent cow in milk will eat a minimum of 1 square bale of GOOD quality hay a day, plus grain. 5-10 lbs grain a day minimum. Especially early in the lactation. They will make more milk than they can eat and will lose a little weight. It's known as milking the fat off their back. Then as their milk slows down a bit they will hit the spot where they are eating more than the milk is taking out of them and gain back condition. On a commercial dairy, with all the silage and everything, and figuring that the farmer is doing things in bulk so "quantity" discounts so to speak; they figure a minimum of $8 to $10 per day to FEED THE COW. Yes we are talking holsteins. But as a comparison, it costs me approx $4 per day to feed my nurse cows. They are raising 3 calves each for the most part. Here in Va we figure it costs us $450 per year to maintain a beef cow. For my nurse cows, $750 per year to maintain a dairy cow. That is allowing for at least 2 months of no milk, the dry period. And we have pasture for approx 8 months a year and they are getting decent hay but not real top quality as I am not feeding them to make a ton of milk. The ones that come in the barn to be milked or are raising a second set of calves, and so are being grained more, are costing closer to $6 per day for at least 250 days. These cows will raise 5 calves plus what milk I want.
Sure, you can do it cheaper than I do. Get less milk. But is it worth it? If you want to go for self-sufficiency, then you can do it. But it will cost you about what it will cost in store bought. Most anyone on here will tell you that it "ain't cheap". Most do it for the freshness, for allergies to store bought stuff, to be able to control what they are ingesting and know where their stuff comes from. There are lots of reasons TO HAVE YOUR OWN ANIMALS. But cheaper is not really one of them.

Also, think about the time element. You have to be there and a dairy cow is more demanding than a dairy goat as they are often milked longer than many goats. Goats are easier to handle, require less in handling facilities. Size is a consideration. I am not a goat person, but they have definite advantages.

 

[Wehner Homestead]

Thanks @farmerjan! I knew you’d bring some good thoughts and points to the table!

 

[Baymule]

@Devonviolet is in her second kidding and has been counting down the days that she could start milking again! She makes kiefer, several kinds of cheese, cream, uses the milk for all sorts of things, but most of all, she LOVES HER GOATS!

Maybe 2-3 dairy goats would be the way to go for you.

 

[WolfeMomma]

@farmerjan Thank you so much for your reply it has given me a lot to think about!
We already have beef cows, so it wouldn't be to much of a stretch to add another. But i am very new to a dairy cows feed requirements. We thought about goats, and I just can't do it,
I have tried multiple different types of goats milk and for lack of a better word...its gross....i cannot drink it . I find cow milk tastes much better. We try our best around here to be self sufficient, and raise our own meat, veggies, fruit , and eggs. Milk was just the next logical step but I really need to research and know what I'm getting in to before I decide to go that route.
So once again thank you for responding, it has helped me a lot!
I love getting advice from those who have been there done that, its better then the info in books sometimes

 

[farmerjan]

Hi again. If you already have beef cows then you know the basics. Any dairy cow can be bred to a beef bull unless it is known to throw exceptionally large calves. So that can be easily addressed. I run anywhere from 3 to 6 dairy cows with some of our first calf beef heifers at one place. They eat the same hay out in the pasture. When I bring them into the barn to let the nurse calves go on them, they get approx 10 lbs grain and at least 2 flakes of good alfalfa hay to help with the protein increase and to make sure they are getting that little extra to keep their milk up. What I do is to leave them in the barn and lot for an hour or so, to allow them to clean up their grain and the hay, then turn them out. Do the same in the evening. This way the calves are getting all the milk.

The one I often milk for the house has a little different routine. She comes in and the calves get to suck her and she eats like normal, and goes out. Then, say in the evening, when she comes in, I do not let the calves on her until after I have milked; while she is eating her grain etc. Then when I get what I want I let the calves come in and get the rest. They do get "shortchanged" when I milk. But I will leave her in with the calves all night so they are getting a chance to suck when they want. In the morning she gets turned out when the other cows go out.
Then that evening, she comes in, gets her "rations" and I milk again and the calves get what's left. Some days I will completely milk her out and then I wait to let the calves in with her for about an hour or two so she has a little milk and they don't drive her nuts. They will again suck when they want and over the course of the night get all they need.
If I am going to be tied up with work, then the calves get all they want and I don't separate them. It's not rocket science and it works out pretty good. Some cows you cannot let the calves stay with as they will only let the calves nurse when they are eating. Some will take them out in the field and let them nurse anywhere anytime.

You can just take the calf away, do all the milking and bottle feed the calf, or calves, or feed the extra that you don't use in the house to pigs. But the only drawback to that is if something happens and you cannot milk for some reason, then the cow will suffer. By letting them be both a nurse cow and "milk cow" you have flexibility.

If you are already feeding beef cows, then the dairy cow will only require some extra in the barn so she can make a decent amount of milk. So say an additional $2-3 per day for her feed as you will not notice what she is eating out with the herd. Yes you can run them together as she will learn VERY QUICKLY that when you are headed to the barn that means she gets fed grain etc.... She can graze right along with them. If she has a disposition to allow more than one calf to suck her, then when they get a few weeks old, they can go out with her and you would only have to keep her or them penned up for 12 hours before you want to milk. But their quantity of milk will go down considerably if you do not supplement them.
I was not trying to paint a dismal picture. But so many people think that a cow can just eat some grass and make milk. Sure, if you only want a gallon a day. A dairy cow is intended to make milk. You can control that to some extent by the amount you supplement; but she will lose weight when she first comes fresh because her body is trying to produce to meet what her genes are programmed to do. The best way to utilize it is to feed her to produce a decent amount, so she will also keep her body weight up and be able to breed back and produce another calf, while still providing for you wants, and her calf's needs.

Another thing that can be a problem is if a dairy cow is not milked out, by hand or by calves, and she gets mastitis, you can ruin her udder. So it is in a persons best interest to make sure she is getting milked out totally at least once a day by calves or by hand. Mastitis can cause her to lose a quarter, or it can actually kill her if it is a virulent strain. It's not that big a deal if you milk her or the calves get all the milk. It is not hard to tell either. But a dairy cow that is not properly taken care of will be more of a negative than a positive.

 

[WolfeMomma]

@farmerjan Thank you so much for posting, I really appreciate getting a different point of view, it really does help as I weigh all the pros and cons.
If we end up heading this direction, do you think that getting one already bred is a good idea? me and my husband don't have much experience in regards to that, so I am worried that it might
not be the best route to go, but i also can't help but to find it appealing.
Also, there is a organic Dairy near us that has Jerseys for sale once and a while, would that be a good route to go....or are they getting rid of the cows for a "reason".
Im assuming an older more experienced cow would be probably be better?
Sorry for all the questions , I don't know or talk to many dairy people

 

[farmerjan]

If you get a bred cow, then there are 2 ways to go. Is she bred but still milking? You are getting a better deal that way, getting some milk and yet she is bred back so you will get a break from the milking when she is dry and then when she first comes fresh, you can start her with "calves" if that is your choice, or milk her only or a combination. The only real plus to getting her as bred, is you KNOW that she is/was/can be bred. Sometimes a cow will just not breed back, no matter what. You don't want to get one in milk, unless she is just fresh, that is not bred because there is always that slim chance that she may not breed back. I had one that did not breed back after her 3rd calf. Not AI, not with a bull, nothing. Vet couldn't find anything wrong. It happens.

The dairy having an occasional cow for sale may be a very good route if you follow a few precautions. Usually a dairy will sell a cow, not for cull, but to a prospective private sale, because she does not make enough milk for the farmer to realize a profit. With the shape of the dairy industry and how little they are getting for their milk right now, ALL FARMERS are finding it very tough to even break even on costs. A low producing cow just won't cut it. It would be an ideal cow for a "homestead". Not too much milk to overwhelm you.
Now there are things to watch out for. Does she have 4 good clean PRODUCING quarters? I am not the slightest bit afraid of a 3-teat cow. She could have had a case of mastitis, it cleared up but the quarter did not recover. You can "kill" a quarter to stop it from producing. It is done sometimes when you can't get the mastitis cleared up in it. Sometimes a heifer will just come in with only 3 operational teats. If a calf is sucked by its herdmates, it can ruin the quarter and sometimes even the udder. I have one now that was sucked as a calf, and when I got her and she freshened she only had milk in 3. So be it. She produces very good out of 3. You leave the other quarter alone.
The quarter could have been injured and they couldn't get it to come back into production. Had one that was butted very hard by another cow. She produced bloody milk for over a month. It never cleared up and I finally just quit milking it. Eventually it dried up on it's own, but I would have killed it if not. Not her fault, no other problems. Sometimes when a cow gets up, which they do back end first, they have been known to accidentally catch a teat between their toes, and they have gotten mashed, or cut wide open. Often there is no saving them if damaged enough. So you wind up with a 3 teat cow. There are lots of reasons. A 4 quarter cow is the preferred route.... but not 100% necessary.

So back to the farm selling an occasional cow. I would talk to them. see what they have to offer. IDEALLY: it would be a younger cow, low producing so she isn't making enough to "pay her way" on the dairy. 4 Good clear open milking quarters. If she has been milking for over 120 days/4 months, I would want her bred back. If milking over 5-6 months, she would HAVE TO BE CONFIRMED PREGNANT. Doesn't matter what she is bred to at that point, many farmers are breeding their lower producing cows to beef bulls as the calves are worth a little more to people who want to raise a few bottle calves. But bred/ confirmed preg is very important so that you are not getting a breeding problem cow. Now if you have a beef bull, then she could come and just get bred by him. Realizing that there is a chance she may have been a problem breeder. Some farmers do not bother to breed back their low milking cows, so then it would be a choice. Your bull would most likely breed her on her first heat. Or you could AI her.
For a less than IDEAL cow, she could be an older cow that just isn't making enough. The farmer may have alot of heifers coming fresh and they will often cull an older cow to make way for "younger, new genetics" as the heifers should be better than the dams, if you are breeding to improve your herd. So there are many times now on farms that they are simply culling older cows to make room for younger cows. They will have udders that may not be as tight, maybe a little sagging as the ligament support loses its strength. As long as you can sit on a stool or 5 gal bucket and get a bucket under her udder and comfortably reach the teats to milk it's okay. You don't want the teats pointing out to the four corners but they may not hang straight down.
You do not want little tiny teats that you can only get your thumb and forefinger around. You need a teat that you can comfortably fit at least your thumb and 3 fingers around. The pinky is not essential but I like a cow that I can get most all my hand on. I have one that has short tiny teats and I cannot milk her by hand. Calves do okay on her but a thumb and forefinger milking is not only tiresome, but a PITA. Also you do not want huge fat teats that you or a calf will have trouble getting ahold of when she first comes fresh. The natural swelling of the udder when first fresh will make it the opposite of tiny teats, but just as difficult to milk.

You want and HAVE to have a cow that will allow you to hand milk her. Some cows on dairies will not be accustomed to that. They only know a machine milking. They have to be accustomed enough to a person working alongside them. YOU DO NOT want a nervous acting cow, or a kicky cow. If she wants to take a swipe at you, LEAVE HER THERE.

Any cow over 10 years old will have a limited life left as a milking cow. I have 2 that are 12 and 14. But getting a cow from someone else I would look for something that has 2 or 3 lactations behind her unless she is a first calf heifer that just doesn't make alot of milk. First calf heifers can be a little tricky as they sometimes don't have the "settled down" thing yet. So yes, a little older cow might be better.

Ask the farmer if he is on DHIA or Dairy One. These are companies that come once a month or so to test the cows. Every cow that goes through the milking parlour will have a milk sample taken from her. It shows the pounds of milk and her butterfat and protein and SOMATIC CELL COUNT as well as other info on that cow. Cell count indicates her udder health and if the cell count is high then she is a candidate for mastitis. A flare up one month is no big deal; several high counts indicates she is a high cell count cow and one to stay away from. She will be a chronic problem down the road. Tell him that you don't know alot about it but you do know it provides info on the cow. If they are decent people, they will show you her records, and explain them to you.

 

[Baymule]

Farmerjan is a wealth of information. Print this out and take it with you as a cheat sheet! Then you won't forget to ask the important questions! LOL