Coffee anyone ?

[Baymule]

President Biden pardons turkeys, Peanut Butter and Jelly, ahead of Thanksgiving

In President Biden's first turkey pardon, he spared two turkeys from the Thanksgiving dinner table. The turkeys' names — Peanut Butter and Jelly — were from a list submitted by schoolchildren.

www.npr.org

I always feel awful for the turkeys pardoned. This year is the toms Peanut Butter and Jelly.

It's just a publicity stunt. They are broad breasted turkeys. Just like a Cornish Cross chicken, they will continue to grow until they fall over dead from a heart attack. people actually believe that those pardoned turkeys go to live forever on a picture perfect farm. Just ain't so. Sorry if I busted your bubble.

 

[Cecilia's-herd]

Sorry if I busted your bubble.

That’s why I feel awful. BBW turkey’s IMO are completely immoral to raise. We have all of these heritage breeds we could use if people were more patient. Ridiculous. Disgusting.

 

[farmerjan]

This is an answer to @Cecilia's-herd and I am not mincing words nor am I trying to be judgemental. But I am a little tired of blanket comments by people who dabble in farming, and who can afford to go other routes if their efforts fail for a year or a crop.......
The heritage breeds are wonderful. The BB breeds/crosses are also not so terrible. We use Artificial insemination for many things.... modern farming is not so terrible.

Let's be serious.... you would not be where you are if not for modern medicine.

It is no more immoral to raise a breed of turkey that has been crossed strictly for weight gain and feed efficiency than to use AI on cattle breeds to improve a breed or for you to have "artificially" gotten pregnant. We do some embryo transfers to try to propagate the better specimans of breeds. What do you think that the first generation of hybrids did in the vegetable world? Better resistance to disease, faster growth, more uniform growth. If a crop fails, do you just go buy what you need? Yet, someone had to grow the food you go buy if your crop fails..... So, don't put down modern agriculture. Without it there would be alot of hungry and starving people in places.

Yes, the BB breeds will continue to grow until they drop over dead. Yes they need to be artificially bred as the toms are unable to breed naturally. Still, if raised in a more natural environment, they are a very practical way to raise some pretty darn good eating birds in a much more practical amount of time without the resulting bird getting old and tough.
I ran 20 on pasture for a couple months. They lived as close to naturally, as any wild or heritage breed. They gained weight fast and got to eat bugs and scratch through the cow pies.... and eat all they wanted at the feeders. I put them in the freezer in about 1/2 the time that a heritage breed would have been finished. The heaviest DRESSED out in the 40 lb range.... the smallest was one with a bad leg at over 22 lbs. dressed.

I have raised Bourbon Reds, had Royal Palms for several years that raised up their own poults.... they all have their place. Patience has nothing to do with it. Practicality..... plain old money and the costs to do so..... is the bottom line for modern agriculture. It is NEITHER RIDICULOUS nor DISGUSTING to raise an animal in the most efficient manner possible. If that is the standard that you judge things, then you should survive on only what you raise, and realize that you also would not be able to have the babies that you are carrying because nature would not allow you to get pregnant in the relationship you are in.

If you don't like the BB breeds, don't raise them. But do not judge good farmers that choose to differently than you do. And farmers that have had to find a way to keep their farm viable in a country that keeps squeezing them to do more with less. The milk industry.... good and bad.... is paying no more today, than what we were getting back in 1989...yet costs have quadrupled..... so farmers have had to adjust and innovate in order to stay in business.

By the way, I have "heritage" breeds..... Guernsey cattle that have been terribly harmed by the push to have more productive cattle which guernsey's were not designed to be high producing animals... I have jerseys, and many crossbreds.... I have some more "rare" breeds of poultry.... but many of these breeds will not feed the world. I have raised many hogs and sheep. From the start of time we have tried to breed an animal that is better for the environment they are growing in.....and that takes into account that they have to be productive. And let's face it, there are many many people that don't want to do the daily hard work of having animals. All the small farms that went out of business due to the big push with "fence row to fence row" farming, will not come back. Individual small farms will always be there, but they will not feed the masses.....and many people are too lazy to want to do the work necessary to feed themselves.
Feeding yourself is admirable... and often can be done in an economical manner. The animals raised this way have a great life most of the time. BUT, animals that go from grazing situations, naturally able to be "cattle" for a year or more......are not mistreated. They are fed diets that are balanced better than most people eat. They laze around and eat and lay around and eat some more. They do not have to fight off predators like their ancestors. They have everything they need in front of them. NO, I don't think they are "living the dream" ... but there are some worse things in life. And being well fed and taken care of to go into the food chain is better than running loose to die of some disease or injury or something. I eat my own beef and like the taste. I eat venison and have no problem with harvesting deer. I have buried an animal that I had affection for, but overall, they are for my use and benefit. Animals are not equal to me. I am their superior, and entrusted to be their caretaker. I am thankful for each one that gives it's life for my sustenance. I try to make their life as good as I can while they are in my care.

 

[Mini Horses]

the small farms that went out of business due to the big push with "fence row to fence row" farming, will not come back. Individual small farms will always be there, but they will not feed the masses.....and many people are too lazy to want to do the work necessary to feed themselves.

So, so true! Feeding the masses -- here and abroad -- is what has created the big farm takeover to be able to produce the quantity needed. It's specialized product, systems and a world of modern technology of computerized methods. Varieties and breeds have been developed to promote fast growth and efficiency. Sometimes at the loss of certain flavor, texture or attributes to enhance others...growth and production. Some is good, some is lacking. It is what is needed.

There are those who work to preserve the heirlooms....we all have this option if raising our own "anything". Now we are referred to more as backyard and hobby farmers, who produce for themselves, not commercially.

Only a few real, small farmers out there trying to make a living at it and suffering through. Most barely cover expenses and often only because of "value added" efforts. I applaud their efforts at a good life for any animal they raise -- heirloom or hybrid. Those meat birds and rabbits feed a lot of families!! Its all hard work, often not appreciated.

 

[Cecilia's-herd]

@farmerjan
I don’t “dabble” in farming. I grew up on a cattle ranch. I will never raise BB’s and I will forever try to direct people to a local farm. I never said That I hate modern agriculture. I’m saying we have to think of the ethics in creating an animal that can’t breed naturally or live longer than a few years in comfort.

And please never call my children artificial again.

I’m sorry I struck a nerve.

 

[Cecilia's-herd]

But I am a little tired of blanket comments by people who dabble in farming, and who can afford to go other routes if their efforts fail for a year or a crop.......

And I'm able to afford a failed effort because of the farm I was raised on. You can make it big in farming if your family has been doing it for 200 years. (Which also makes me a little angry don't get me wrong.)

 

[Baymule]

@Cecilia's-herd dont take offense. @farmerjan did not say your children are artificial, just the process for you to have them. What a wonder for modern medicine, for you and your wife to be able to have children. You even posted about it. We are all happy for you.

I have raised Cornish Cross for customers and for our freezer. Why? Because in 2-3 months I have a lot of meat. Also, people won’t pay for hatchet breasted heritage breeds that take much longer to raise and for much less meat. I like to butcher extra roosters, the meat is good. But that’s me, not a customer paying $6 per pound.

I’ve never raised turkeys. I like the Royal Palms, just for eye candy, and I’d have them for dinner too. LOL Would I raise a Broad Breasted? Yes.

Packing 20,000 chickens in a barn is how it’s done. It is efficient and raises a lot of meat, cheap enough that everyone can eat chicken. Pigs are raised in barns, never seeing daylight or dirt, over lagoons of their own waste. I’ve eaten a lot of industrial meat in my life. Like many others, I couldn’t afford custom raised meat, until I raised my own.

Not fussing at you. Not fussing at farmerjan. Each of you has their own point of view.

I would much rather raise my own meat, know that my animals were treated well, had plenty of room and were able to live more of a natural life. It costs a lot more to raise my own, not to mention slaughter charges.

 

[Cecilia's-herd]

@Cecilia's-herd dont take offense. @farmerjan did not say your children are artificial, just the process for you to have them.

Thank you for clarifying. Sorry. Mama bear came out there for a second. Deep breaths.

Each of you has their own point of view.

And I would say both are valid. I’m sorry. I got a little defensive and angry.

I would much rather raise my own meat, know that my animals were treated well, had plenty of room and were able to live more of a natural life. It costs a lot more to raise my own, not to mention slaughter charges.

As would I. Cost is a huge factor. I can buy and raise ethically sourced meat but not have the ability or funds to go to a restaurant for example. I don’t have the funds to have my children in a hospital (in an emergency I will do all I can, I promise), or maybe buy new clothing every year.

 

[Baymule]

Whole industrial chickens go on sale for less than a dollar a pound. No way I could raise chicken that cheap. I’ve bought a lot of those on sale chickens before, budgeting to feed my family.

Pork chops go on sale for $1.88 per pound. Slaughter charges are $65 kill fee plus $1.15 per pound, hanging weight. I can’t raise pork for $1.88 per pound.

Poor people and most middle class people can’t afford to pay the price I have to charge for the meat I raise. Industrial meat feeds this country. Us as farmers may not like the methods, but it is needed.

 

[Cecilia's-herd]

Pork chops go on sale for $1.88 per pound. Slaughter charges are $65 kill fee plus $1.15 per pound, hanging weight. I can’t raise pork for $1.88 per pound.

I don’t eat pork but I have always wondered; can you slaughter and butcher them yourself? Why do we have to go through all these loopholes.