Magnum- the unfolding/unravelling story of our LGD

[ChickenMomma]

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[Baymule]

I have 2 Great Pyrenees. Paris, the female, was our first. She was a free throw away because she killed chickens. Her owners did everything wrong, including punishing her terribly. By the time we got her, she was a 1 year old psychotic mess. She is now 11 years old and I still refer to her as the Psycho Bitch. I was planning on getting a LGD "someday" when we moved to some land. But there she was, free, and going to a bad end if we did not take her. So Paris came to our tiny back yard in the middle of town.

Here is her story.

My Pyrenees Doesn't Guard Sheep, Goats or Chase Bears Hawk! post #26

Paris is our girl's name. She was given to us as a 10 month old because she was killing chickens. Ya'll know the story.......a youngster turned loose on 3 acres full of chickens with no supervision. Her owners would find dead chickens with no teeth marks, but wet (slobbered) and dead. So she was...

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Paris is Calling Me With Her Eyes!

Every evening, Paris parks herself in front of the patio glass doors, staring intently through them straight at me, sitting in my recliner. This is after I feed her. She won't eat until I go outside and praise her. Actually, I gush praise like a broken water main. I tell her, You are so smart...

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Then we moved 160 miles north to Lindale, Tx. We had fenced the backyard for her before we moved. Several times I tried to move her to a pasture, but she would have none of it. Now, she has the backyard, we ran a fence to the back of the sheep barn, so she has the side pasture too. I can put her in the front pasture for a short time before she gets the heebie-jeebies and wants to go back to her "safe" place. Yeah, weird dog. Right now, I have 45 Cornish Cross chicks in a chicken tractor in the side pasture. She lays near it, guarding them from snakes. Love the Psycho Bitch!

Paris Has Begun Lamb Training

We built a small pen in the backyard and weaned the lambs 3 days ago. We put the lambs in Paris territory. For those who don't know Paris, her post is below. http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/my-pyrenees-doesnt-guard-sheep-goats-or-chase-bears-hawk-post-26.23771/ We no longer live in town...

www.backyardherds.com

I am no LGD trainer. I am posting what I did, it may or may not work for you. You may be able to glean from my efforts/mistakes something of value to you. I chronicled our adventures and got lots of helpful ideas, also to help anyone else with puppies, so that they could possible use anything I did with my dogs.

Now for Trip, he was an adorable cute puppy that we got 3 weeks before we moved. I know, bad timing, but there he was and we seized the opportunity.

New Pyrenees Puppy!

Last night I was looking at Pyrenees rescues online. DH asked why. Me- I told him that we would have to have another dog, especially when we got sheep and had to keep the ram separate from the ewes. DH- Why? Me- Because you put the ram in when you want the ewes bred or else you never know when...

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Trip Is A Sheep Guardian

When we finally got sheep, all Paris wanted to do was attack them and all Trip wanted to do was play with and chase them. The sheep liked neither idea and all was chaos. I tried and tried and got nowhere. Frustrated, I just had to quit trying with the dogs. :smack In the last few months, I have...

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I tried to have Muscovy ducks. Trip ate them. He even snarled and lunged at me, protecting his kill. The Alpha Bitch in me grabbed a handy 4' pine limb on the ground and beat the snot out of him, doing some growling and snarling of my own. Trip stood his ground and i was wondering how that would play out, but didn't back down. He finally broke and ran, with me in hot pursuit, still landing blows with the pine limb. Extreme? yes. What was I supposed to do? Congratulate him and let him keep it? Aww HELL NO! I took his kills, and disposed of them. He killed a couple more and I gave the last one away. No ducks for me. Trip thinks that they are on the menu.

Fast forward to the past few months. We added a new puppy, a female. Talk about upsetting the pack order! I need to make a thread about the anguish that caused! The 3 boys totally derailed and went off the deep end.

I had a trio of guineas with 4 half grown chicks, plus one barn chicken, named Joy Chicken. Joy Chicken was the first to go. Trip laid beside her in the pasture, telling me that there was a problem. Who did it? No idea. Then a guinea hen, then another. I was upset. Trying to figure out who was doing the damage, I separated dogs, kept the puppy in the house, did everything I could think of, to no avail. This played out over several weeks, with me getting more and more frustrated.

I found Trip eating a guinea chick one morning and went off on him. I put the puppy, Sheba, and her buddy, Sentry, in Pasture #1 that evening, leaving Trip and Parker (Great Dane/Labrador farm dog) in the yard (about 1 1/2 acres) for the night. I went out later and found that Trip had jumped IN the pasture and was dining on another Guinea chick. I blew up. I snatched the guinea, beat him with it and chased him. I threw a board at him. I was screaming, cussing and hurling insults. We made 4 laps around the pasture before he jumped the gate and ran to the porch. I followed, closing the porch door. My husband was inside, taking a nap. He awoke to a screaming mad woman beating the dog with a dead guinea and a flyswatter, running up and down the length of the porch. I finally got tired and my husband let Trip in, and routed him to the back yard. I kept him on lock down for 3 weeks (with Paris-we let her out for free time every day). I did not talk to him or acknowledge him in any way. I loved on Paris, but totally ignored Trip. The guinea killing stopped, I only have 2 left now, both males.

I finally talked to Trip and let him out. I walked him around, pointing out the guineas, saying MINE. I think he got the message. 2 neighbor's guineas showed up here and the fluttering of new guineas caught his attention and he "herds" them. I go out and scold him and he stops. This is where we are now.

Trip has become more of a yard/farm guard, guarding the sheep and poultry (when he isn't eating them) from predators. He jumps fences with ease and goes where he wants. I'm ok with that.

TRAINING NEVER STOPS.

And a new dog........

Sentry, Baymule’s Livestock Guard Dog

We have two Great Pyrenees, Paris and Trip. Paris is 10 and Trip will be 5 in November. Now is a good time to introduce and train a new puppy. I have been wanting an Anatolian. I was on a Facebook Sheep and goat group when I saw a post for a very Anatolian looking puppy. I kept going back to...

www.backyardherds.com

And a new puppy.....

Sheba-A Marvelous Gift

I was contacted by a person wishing to remain anonymous, with an offer of an Anatolian puppy. As I read the generous offer to BJ, we both burst into tears. Because of Sentry’s hip dysplasia and surgery and our decision not to put him through another surgery, this person felt bad for us. Needless...

www.backyardherds.com

And the story continues. Every day brings new challenges and new rewards. I have evolved from 1 LGD to 4, plus a Great Dane/Labrador (our 2nd one) farm dog, giving us a total of 5 big dogs. Yes. I am insane.

I am 11 years into my LGD experience. No expert by any means, but I have come a long way. My dogs have taught me more than I will ever teach them.

 

[ChickenMomma]

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[Baymule]

@Ridgetop thank you so much for the thorough and detailed information. I had never looked at the issue being on the goats side of things and this brings new light to the situation. I will start putting one or two in his kennel with him, supervised of course, for short sessions and go from there.
Thank you for the info on the Pyrenees too. You described him perfectly. He LOVES people and he loves the animals, he is just so playful right now that they don't understand his behavior. It also makes sense that he would be more of a property guardian, this has just really helped. I can't thank you enough. We have over 60 acres of property, but the 1.5 is the fenced in pasture portion and its right behind our home in a valley. about 7 acres is cleared land and the rest is heavily wooded. We take walks through our property and into the woods (we have a walking trail in and out of them) and he is ever on the alert, flopping around and investigating everything. I do see instincts in him to mark his territory but there is just a lot of puppy. Its hard to remember that when he can put his paws on my shoulders. I will keep you posted on our adventure with him and I am hopeful now that we are on the right track. Thank you so much!

You have unknowingly contributed to his roaming instincts. Understand this; everything his feet stand on is HIS. Even further, everything his eyes sees is HIS. So by walking him around on more of your property, you are telling him that it is HIS and it ok for him to guard that too. @Ridgetop please correct me if I am wrong. GP's take ownership seriously.

Another thing, are you letting him stand up, placing feet on your shoulders so you can give him hugs? This has nowhere to go but down. As he grows and matures, this will become a dominance issue. He will "dominate" you this way, you will become his subordinate, he will be your boss. YOU must be the Alpha Dog, strong in behavior, but firm and fair. Sometimes my dogs hump each other, not for sex, but to work out pack order and it is a dominant behavior. A snarling quick fight ensues and pack order is reestablished. I have 2 intact males that are close to losing their testicles, Parker and Sentry. I like dogs to reach full growth at around 2 years old, before neutering them. Life is more peaceful (for me) without testicles ruling the dogs brains. LOL Again, @Ridgetop correct me if I am wrong about a dog placing it's feet on shoulders.

I hope I have said nothing that hurts your feelings. I do not wish to cause anguish on your part, but to share my feeble experiences and my own learning along the way. I am still a work in progress. @Ridgetop has over 30 years with LGDs and many others here on the forum have vastly more experience and knowledge than I do. I post dog journals to chronicle theirs and mine experiences and for the helpful comments and training ideas from others. It might be a good thing for you to make this your puppy's journal, change the title and put his name in it. Months or years from now, as you go back and read it, you can see how far he (and you) have come. Post his progress as he grows.

 

[ChickenMomma]

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[Baymule]

When he jumps up at you, do a quick HARD knee jerk into his belly (or any place) while sternly saying DOWN! Yes, you want it to hurt. Mean? No. Discipline? Yes. Best case scenario, you flip him on his back and stand over him reading him the riot act. Remember, the Alpha Bitch bites, snarls, growls and rolls puppies on their backs into submission. This is reserved for BAD behavior, not something that you do for every tiny offense.

 

[ChickenMomma]

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[B&B Happy goats]

I feel for you lol, listen to Bay and Ridgetop...you and Magnum will get there....with a lot of patience on your part and earning his trust, you will become partners

 

[ChickenMomma]

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[Baymule]

Patience grasshopper.