Making a pasture....and keeping it managed.

Latestarter

Novice; "Practicing" Animal Husbandry
Golden Herd Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2014
Messages
11,384
Reaction score
17,435
Points
623
Location
NE Texas
Just so's ya know, my goats won't eat goat weed either... Leaves off the Chinese privet, ash, sweet gum, and oak trees are so much tastier. Thanks GB for sharing your knowledge.
 

mystang89

True BYH Addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
1,965
Points
298
Location
Charlestown IN
Thanks for writing this. Seems fairly comprehensive and easy to understand so far. I would like to re-emphasize just how important it is to crowd out the weeds. If the Grass Roots are strong then it's more difficult for the weeds to be able to incur on the prescious land. This of course goes right into what you were saying about pH and helping your Grass to have the most suitable place to thrive.

I do have one question though on how some of you would take care of a particular problem. When I moved into this house the were many locus trees in a copes that needed to be taken down. Locus trees do NOT need open spot to grow NOR do they need sunlight NOR do they need water (at least directly).I have been battling locus trees growing inside my wood shed for years now. The shed has no light, no direct rain, but I still continue to spray round up and continue to watch the locus die only to come right back up in a month. The problem is the MAIN root system I believe, of the tree which was cut down with in the vicinity. Proximity has nothing to do with it.

I say this because in my wood shed I can just cut the root from beginning to end running through the shed but in the pasture that is impossible. If I can't get to mowing soon enough it starts to look like a locus Grove again. How do I battle at tree that doesn't care about whether it has room. Doesn't permanently die from from round up and grows new shoots from a root underground that can run forever?
 

Senile_Texas_Aggie

Herd Master
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Messages
1,728
Reaction score
4,916
Points
313
Location
western Arkansas
@greybeard,

I have copied every one of your postings on this thread to a file where I can easily reference it. Thanks so much for writing this so far. I look forward to your additional posts in this and other threads.

Senile Texas Aggie
 

Baymule

Herd Master
Joined
Aug 22, 2010
Messages
21,317
Reaction score
53,940
Points
823
Location
Northeast Texas
Thanks for writing this. Seems fairly comprehensive and easy to understand so far. I would like to re-emphasize just how important it is to crowd out the weeds. If the Grass Roots are strong then it's more difficult for the weeds to be able to incur on the prescious land. This of course goes right into what you were saying about pH and helping your Grass to have the most suitable place to thrive.

I do have one question though on how some of you would take care of a particular problem. When I moved into this house the were many locus trees in a copes that needed to be taken down. Locus trees do NOT need open spot to grow NOR do they need sunlight NOR do they need water (at least directly).I have been battling locus trees growing inside my wood shed for years now. The shed has no light, no direct rain, but I still continue to spray round up and continue to watch the locus die only to come right back up in a month. The problem is the MAIN root system I believe, of the tree which was cut down with in the vicinity. Proximity has nothing to do with it.

I say this because in my wood shed I can just cut the root from beginning to end running through the shed but in the pasture that is impossible. If I can't get to mowing soon enough it starts to look like a locus Grove again. How do I battle at tree that doesn't care about whether it has room. Doesn't permanently die from from round up and grows new shoots from a root underground that can run forever?

I hate locust. I also hate Chinese tallow trees. Both are invasive weeds as far as I'm concerned. At our previous place, we had Chinese tallow trees. I finally resorted to Remedy to kill them. Greybeard can explain how to use Remedy. I am as organic as I can be, but there are some situations that just have no other answer to solve the problem. I did not just spray the whole area, I sprayed the stump after we cut them down or I hacked into the trunk with an axe or hatchet, then sprayed the wound.
 

Reindeermama

Overrun with beasties
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
65
Reaction score
49
Points
78
Thank you so much for doing this series of posts. I am trying to get our pastures in shape, and they need help. Our local agent said we have so many weesatche, we need to spray with remedy. The dexter cows have been eating some weeds. I need to find a book so I can Identify the weeds. I have four sheep coming, hopefully that will help, while I research remedy. Te information in these posts about pasture in one place, and so well written help, and explain things I wasn't really understanding.
 

greybeard

Herd Master
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
5,940
Reaction score
10,764
Points
553
Location
East Texas
Our local agent said we have so many weesatche, we need to spray with remedy.
I really wasn't going to get into species specific control method yet, but will address these 2.

I am pretty sure you are talking about Huisache. :D I haven't had to deal with any of that since I moved East from West Texas, but it's about like trying to control Tallow or Mesquite. Spot spray with a diesel remedy mix and you want to do it during that plant's growing season which is in the middle of summer here, when it's hot. Huisache is one of those plants where it is more effective to spray the stem or trunk than to spray the leaves....called basal application*. Wet the stem from the ground up to about 12" above the ground but not to the point the mixture runs off on the ground. Remedy has no soil active ingredient so it won't do any good to wet the area around the plant...besides, the diesel in the mix will kill your grass. Keep a low pressure low flow stream on the stem.
The mix ratio is going to depend on whether is is an older multi stemmed plant or a younger single stemmed plant.
diesel15%:85% Remedy for the younger plants.
25% diesel:75% Remedy on the older multi stemmed ones, which is the same ratio I use on Tallow trees.
Yes, It can get expensive since the last Remedy Ultra I bought at the co-op in Bryan was $140 for 2.5 gallons or $87 for 1 gallon. You don't want to waste any running it off on the ground. The diesel is used as a penetrant..it doesn't really act as a herbicide.

myStang89.. I'm not sure which Locust you have. Honey Locust (the one with the horrible thorns) or Black Locust. I have never tried to kill or control a black locust..they are a desirable tree here, as they make great fence posts and take years and years to rot even in wet ground.



1st, let ,me say I am NOT a fan of Roundup or any of it's generics for anything except keeping grass and weeds down around my house and yard, and then only to avoid having to weed eat much. DO understand, glyphosate can and does vaporize and translocate if used in hot weather and it can settle in places and on plants you don't want it.
1. I'm always leery of anything that claims to 'do it all' and Roundup/glyphosate pretty much makes that claim.
2. Roundup is mostly a foliar (leaf) applied herbicide, and it works pretty good on some weeds and most grasses, but for brush and trees, not so much when applied as a foliar application. Yes, it makes the leaves quickly change colors, die, then drop off too fast, and along with them, the herbicide. For brush and undesirable trees, you want the tree to continue functioning until the chemical has time to affect the root system, especially on species like Tallow, Locust, Sweet gum and most cedars. (Cedar is a big problem here, and they suck tremendous amounts of moisture from the ground that our forages and desirable trees need..and they drop lots of seeds)

Sounds like someone cut down a more mature locust and didn't treat the stump...a very common problem. Cutting down the tree (or even uprooting the thing) encourages any of the roots to send up suckers from any of the lateral roots left in the ground. There are quite a few species that do this. As I said in the opening paragraph, the part of the vascular system called the phloem is a 2 way street. It can sent nutrient rich water up the trunk to the leaves or sugar rich liquid down to the roots as necessary. It is important, that IF a tree is cut down and you don't want 6 of it's family to come to it's funeral, you need to treat the stump immediately to kill the root system--within 15 minutes of sawing it down. If you wait too long, a thick viscous material from the Zyleum will form on top of the stump and seal it off. (Stumps can be treated any time of the year, as long as the above practice is used, but IMO, it works better in the fall as most of the movement in the vascular system is downward to the roots anyway in anticipation of winter coming on)Your problem with the locust is is a bit different.

Another method, which I employ a lot, is not to cut the mature tree down at all. Kill it standing. A frill cut is made around the outside of the trunk ( I currently use a hatchet) and a small amount of diesel/herbicide mix or even straight herbicide is squirted into the frill cut immediately. Just a few squirts is all that is needed. On any tree about 3" in diameter, I just make 3 cuts, downward at an angle, about waist high, and from a 1 qt spray bottle, with the nozzle set to a stream (not mist) I lightly squirt a little in each cut. If the tree is bigger in diameter, I have to make more cuts. Some people will girdle the whole trunk, cutting the bark back all the way around. I'm not a fan of that way as I want the tree to have a few vascular paths left open to carry the herbicide both up and down. (not recommended for a tree that may die and fall on your house, barn or car)

But, since your primary original Locust tree is long gone and you are dealing with the suckers from it's roots, you will want to do the basal spray thing, and I recommend doing it in the fall on plants outside in the sun, again, just before the leaves start to change colors. With your's growing inside the shed, I suppose you can do it any time of the year, but I've never tried it inside. (again, I've not much experience at all with Black Locusts)

IF the original stump were still there, I have had some luck taking a chainsaw, cuting a couple of inches off the top of the stump, exposing new live wood and doing the cut stump treatment to that original 'mother tree's' stump. On fair sized stumps, remember, you don't need to cover the whole top surface, usually just the outer 2 inches where the cambium (vascular) layers are located. The center is usually dead sapwood that no longer carries anything up or down.
 

mystang89

True BYH Addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2012
Messages
1,050
Reaction score
1,965
Points
298
Location
Charlestown IN
I hate locust. I also hate Chinese tallow trees. Both are invasive weeds as far as I'm concerned. At our previous place, we had Chinese tallow trees. I finally resorted to Remedy to kill them. Greybeard can explain how to use Remedy.

myStang89.. I'm not sure which Locust you have. Honey Locust (the one with the horrible thorns) or Black Locust. I have never tried to kill or control a black locust..they are a desirable tree here, as they make great fence posts and take years and years to rot even in wet ground.



1st, let ,me say I am NOT a fan of Roundup or any of it's generics for anything except keeping grass and weeds down around my house and yard, and then only to avoid having to weed eat much. DO understand, glyphosate can and does vaporize and translocate if used in hot weather and it can settle in places and on plants you don't want it.
1. I'm always leery of anything that claims to 'do it all' and Roundup/glyphosate pretty much makes that claim.
2. Roundup is mostly a foliar (leaf) applied herbicide, and it works pretty good on some weeds and most grasses, but for brush and trees, not so much when applied as a foliar application. Yes, it makes the leaves quickly change colors, die, then drop off too fast, and along with them, the herbicide. For brush and undesirable trees, you want the tree to continue functioning until the chemical has time to affect the root system, especially on species like Tallow, Locust, Sweet gum and most cedars. (Cedar is a big problem here, and they suck tremendous amounts of moisture from the ground that our forages and desirable trees need..and they drop lots of seeds)

Sounds like someone cut down a more mature locust and didn't treat the stump...a very common problem. Cutting down the tree (or even uprooting the thing) encourages any of the roots to send up suckers from any of the lateral roots left in the ground. There are quite a few species that do this. As I said in the opening paragraph, the part of the vascular system called the phloem is a 2 way street. It can sent nutrient rich water up the trunk to the leaves or sugar rich liquid down to the roots as necessary. It is important, that IF a tree is cut down and you don't want 6 of it's family to come to it's funeral, you need to treat the stump immediately to kill the root system--within 15 minutes of sawing it down. If you wait too long, a thick viscous material from the Zyleum will form on top of the stump and seal it off. (Stumps can be treated any time of the year, as long as the above practice is used, but IMO, it works better in the fall as most of the movement in the vascular system is downward to the roots anyway in anticipation of winter coming on)Your problem with the locust is is a bit different.

Another method, which I employ a lot, is not to cut the mature tree down at all. Kill it standing. A frill cut is made around the outside of the trunk ( I currently use a hatchet) and a small amount of diesel/herbicide mix or even straight herbicide is squirted into the frill cut immediately. Just a few squirts is all that is needed. On any tree about 3" in diameter, I just make 3 cuts, downward at an angle, about waist high, and from a 1 qt spray bottle, with the nozzle set to a stream (not mist) I lightly squirt a little in each cut. If the tree is bigger in diameter, I have to make more cuts. Some people will girdle the whole trunk, cutting the bark back all the way around. I'm not a fan of that way as I want the tree to have a few vascular paths left open to carry the herbicide both up and down. (not recommended for a tree that may die and fall on your house, barn or car)

But, since your primary original Locust tree is long gone and you are dealing with the suckers from it's roots, you will want to do the basal spray thing, and I recommend doing it in the fall on plants outside in the sun, again, just before the leaves start to change colors. With your's growing inside the shed, I suppose you can do it any time of the year, but I've never tried it inside. (again, I've not much experience at all with Black Locusts)

IF the original stump were still there, I have had some luck taking a chainsaw, cuting a couple of inches off the top of the stump, exposing new live wood and doing the cut stump treatment to that original 'mother tree's' stump. On fair sized stumps, remember, you don't need to cover the whole top surface, usually just the outer 2 inches where the cambium (vascular) layers are located. The center is usually dead sapwood that no longer carries anything up or down.

I actually have both locus at my location however its the black locus which is coming up in the pasture. When I cut them down the locus is what was used for my fence posts and I am very grateful that it was there. It also provided an excellent firewood and sign. It's a wonderful tree which keeps providing....quite literally. I know that if I cut one tree down that more will pop up around it providing me with more firewood in the future years.

However, the previous owners had allowed the locus to grow into the fence line and into their pasture. So when I moved in I needed to take care of them and open everything up again. I didn't know about having to take care of the tree quickly after cutting it down so thank you for that piece of knowledge for the future. (I still have more fence line that needs clearing from locus. I'll have to look up "Remedy" and see about getting some. I have about 20 or so stumps to get to however these stumps don't even come 2 in" above the ground so I'll probably have to take the chainsaw in from the top down, making an insert into it so I can poor the remedy mixture in. Do you believe that will allow the poison into the vascular tissue of the wood?
 

Latest posts

Top