Once again, thanks for all the thoughts!
As to your kids lessons, in my opinion I think strict form should take a back seat to enjoying the animal you're on. If they aren't preparing for a show ring, let them do some fun stuff on horseback. It's a shame that your son has a bad impression of riding now.
...I see the kids around here riding and I admit I do cringe at their lack of good horsemanship, but I see myself at their age and I know that the rest will follow if they are first allowed to just enjoy being on a horses back and develop a relationship with a horse.
Excellent points! Having ridden in a more formal setting for well over a year, the kids have the basics down just fine. It’s definitely past time for them to start having fun on horseback. And thanks for the insight on unlearning/relearning as an adult. I’ve probably been too stuffy about the kids’ riding. I was afraid that if they didn’t get it right from the start that they would pick up bad habits that would be too hard to unlearn later. But I was missing the forest for the trees.
Ironically, we homeschool, and I‘m huge on helping kids keep their love of learning intact. And yet, I wasn’t living out that advice with my kids and horses!
I guess I’ve had my slice of humble pie for the day. With our new trainer, I intend to request a bit of time at the start to allow the kids to “de-school” from the previous lessons and simply experience some fun with the horses before moving on to new/better skills.
Games and obstacles and patterns are great for lessons. Follow the leader, red light/green light and Simon says all can be done on horseback, among others. Setting up barrels, cones, ground poles as obstacles can all be fun and great learning tools to direct your horse around and through.
I love these suggestions, and that gives me some things to ask about when calling other barns! Thanks!
She is ruining the joy for your children. That is where I got mad. How DARE she? I go mamma tiger where children are concerned. This alone should make you never go back, let alone the other incidents. She is picking them apart, being hyper critical and sucking the life out of them. These are your children, get them away from this ___________(more bad words).
What I care about is the enjoyment I get out of riding. The enjoyment is being stolen from your children.
I may sound harsh here, if that hurts your feelings, I'll shut up and go away. I'm just really ticked off. Tell me to shut up and I will.
I appreciate your honesty and concen!
Yes, I totally agree that her initial reactions when I told her about her horse’s dangerous behavior were just awful. I can’t in a million years imagine being so flippant about the safety of someone who’s working with one of my animals! To be perfectly honest, I really don’t mind being pared with this particular horse
IF I have the trainer watching and instructing me on how to handle him. This guy has a bad temper and is ill-suited to being a lesson horse— But I do think he could work wonders for my ground-handling skills
under the watchful eye of a good trainer. (And there’s the rub.) The tack is inexcusable also. I didn’t especially mind that it *looked* rough. But it’s crossed the line from “well-worn” to dangerous, and I can’t overlook it anymore.
I do feel that I need to make some clarifications regarding the children, though. I honestly and truly don’t think this trainer is sucking the life and all enjoyment out of them. Really I don’t, and if I thought that were the case, I would have put my foot down long ago. (FWIW, when I said they were “bored to tears,” I meant it as an expression only. No one has cried over lessons to date!) The more I reflect on it, the more I realize there is a better way of teaching horsemanship to children. That said, I don’t think the trainer is
bad with the kids. She’s just boring and maybe a little bit too stern. When we started lessons with her, we were just as likely to be out riding in the field and on trails as we were to be in the arena. Lately, though, the lessons have become very monotonous. She uses her short trails for warming up and cooling down the horses, but that’s all. The rest of the lesson is just going in circles in the arena. I’ve been getting a bit tired of it, and the kids are certainly over it! However, she is not as tough on the kids as she is on adults. She honestly isn’t picking on them or being mean to them!
It is true that my son has asked to quit lessons and proclaims that he “hates horses,” but it’s not all the trainer’s fault. Sure, she could make the lessons more enjoyable for him and hold his interest better, but he happens to be a kid with VERY strong opinions. He either LOVES something or he HATES it. There isn’t much middle ground with him. (It drives me batty, to be honest!) Just for the record, he also “hates soccer,” “hates Harry Potter”, and “hates the movie theater.”
As for my daughter, she is a bit less enthusiastic about horses than she used to be, although I don’t think that’s all the trainer’s fault, either. In fact, my daughter says she doesn’t want to switch stables and that she likes the trainer! Part of her becoming less enthusiastic, I think, is that the lessons are tedious, but I believe it’s also that she expected riding to be much easier in general- Just hop on a horse and gallop into the sunset, like she sees on TV. She was disappointed to find that wasn’t the case. Regardless, she does enjoy riding, does well with it, and would probably continue to have some fun even if we stayed at the current barn.
At least one bored, irritable, possibly hurting horse, tack not being maintained, dull, tedious lessons - this sounds like a program going downhill. Wonder what's happening with the trainer?
Any idea why the horse would want to kick the door?
I would not go through a doorway with a fractious horse. I'd get him settled on the inside or the outside, and only proceed through when he could go quietly. If he starts to blow up near the doorway, he's going backwards to where he came from (horses generally prefer to move forwards, so making one back up is often used as a disciplinary measure). This is one of those "make the right choice easy, and the wrong one hard" situations... Though truth to tell, this isn't something I'd like to be doing with the distraction of other people and horses in the aisle, at least, not the first time - and this really is something that should be done by someone who can "read" the horse's body language well.
You know, that’s a really good point about the program going downhill. I think it is. Lessons a year ago were more dynamic and the trainer seemed more engaged in general. She has had a very eventful year, some good, some not. I suppose it’s possible that she just got caught up in it all and let the lesson side of things slide.
I think the horse is definitely protesting going out to work. Every attack he’s leveled at me— the kicks, the bite, and the general nastiness— have occurred while I’m tacking him up or walking him out of the barn. He’s also difficult to catch when he’s turned out (and not just for me but in general). In lessons, he’s been protesting a bit, too. Nothing serious, mostly just being slow to respond to cues, and since the trainer *is* present then, she’s been able to help me nip the behavior right away. I definitely don’t think he enjoys giving lessons, although he’s also bad tempered in general, such as with the other horses when he’s turned out, so it’s not
just lessons.
At our most recent lesson, I asked the trainer for some ground lessons for me, and I was very pleasantly surprised by her response. She took time to address all of my questions, went with me to the stall to see for herself, and helped me pick up on some cues the horse was sending me that I was totally missing. And she had me walk the horse into and out of the stall in pretty much the way you described. Fortunately, the barn was nearly empty; I agree about not wanting to do it with people and horses milling all about. I’m still in the market for a new trainer, but I learned
a lot in that little 15 min ground lesson. I’m very thankful for it. I wish she had had that kind of response the first few times I complained!
Which is why I do not have a riding animal at this time I am a confident rider and like a spicy horse but, not wanting any accidents at this stage of my life. PLUS I don't want to keep an animal if I don't feel I have the time to devote to the handling & care they need from me. Already have these mini retiree pasture ornaments.
Is it possible to buy a couple of nice gentle horses and start trail riding with your children? You said you work with cattle - do you have somewhere to keep a couple horses?
Ah, buying horses of our own. I’m really struggling with this!!
So first of all, yes, we
could buy some horses. We live on a lovely 20 acre property on which we already run a small, diversified farm. So space and facilities aren’t really an issue, nor is being “tied down” with a horse. We’re already tied down by cattle, goats, hogs, and more poultry than I can shake a stick at!
Money isn’t exactly an issue, either. Not that I
want to spend a ton on horses— and my husband would certainly need some convincing!— but we’re already spending a pretty penny on lessons, and many of the more expensive aspects of horse ownership are not an issue for us. We wouldn’t be boarding. We already have good fences. Our pastures are good. We have a steady supply of organic hay cut from our own land. (Though it might be better suited to cattle than horses— I still haven’t pegged down the finer points of what constitutes “horse hay.”) And we’d have no problem saving a little on vet care by doing some vaccines, testing, and such ourselves since we’re already doing that for various other livestock. We also have a truck & horse trailer (which so far has been used to haul pretty much everything
but horses). If we had our own horses, I imagine we’d move to maybe 2 lessons a month plus practice on our own. One of the frustrating things for me has been that with lessons and a lesson pony, I don’t really have the opportunity to head out and just
ride. I’d like the opportunity to practice more often and under more varied conditions. I’d like the freedom to just go out and hack. I want that for the kids also.
On the other hand, time is an issue! I do struggle with getting everything done as it is, and having horses would add to my responsibilities. And of course, the money aspect can’t be completely overlooked. Not only are horses generally expensive to purchase and maintain, but I don’t have a real use for them on our farm. An expensive dairy cow already bred back? No problem! We can totally recoup that investment! Another pig? Bring on the bacon! But a horse? We just can’t
do much with it! That’s a hard sell for us! I also feel like I still have a lot to learn about equines before going out and buying horses.
Bottom line... Riding a lesson pony once a week is never going to be the same as having our own horses, with which we can develop a bond and enjoy. In addition, we have a pretty good setup already in place for equines.
But I have some serious reservations about buying horses at this time. So I’m torn.
I don't care how good a trainer she may be, when she persists in using a horse who is dangerous she has no business training. She knows the horse is dangerous - he has a history of deliberately kicking people, he has a history of biting people. That means he is dangerous. You are paying for riding lessons, she is not paying you to break her dangerous, nasty tempered horse.
Second, the tack should be in good, usable condition. Using tack where cinches snap, where the previously broken straps have not been repaired, and where the saddles and bridles are falling apart is another warning sign that this trainer should not be training students. The worn out and broken tack is another accident waiting to happen! No matter how much you like her, no matter how accomplished she may be, no matter how knowledgeable she is you need to DUMP HER AND GET ANOTHER TRAINER IMMEDIATELY.
Between the tack problems and this dangerous horse it should be completely obvious that you need a new trainer.
Third, I agree with Bay that this is the worst flaw in the trainer. She is turning what should be a delight and privilege for your children to actually be able to ride horses into a boring burden. How sad to see this happen.
This is not your horse. His behavior is not your problem. Your safety is at issue. Your safety should come first... This trainer's disregard for your safety completely removes any loyalty you might feel for her.
We are here for you and will back you up if the trainer gives you any problems or tries to make you feel bad about finding someone else. All these horse owners and riders are in agreement. That should tell you that your instincts are right and you need another trainer.
You’ve made some excellent points, and I thank you for them! I think I addressed many of your comments above, but I’ll add that I am actively shopping for a new trainer & facility. I’ve contacted four barns so far. Two simply won’t work out, but there are two more that seem like possibilities. I’m hoping to get some more answers to my questions— and I’m asking FAR better questions this time around than I was when I found the inital trainer! Hopefully I can set up a time later this week to see these facilities in person.
I think it was on BYC that a member mentioned starting to lead a quiet, well-behaved older horse he had owned all of her life in or out of a stall, and the next thing he knew, he was picking himself up off the floor with one heck of a concussion, and no idea what had happened. Big, fast animal, hard surfaces, confined space - it's potentially dangerous, even with the quiet ones.
