Slow Introductions on Pasture

[farmerjan]

Lost 12 mature young cows (4 to 8 yrs) (w/ 3 month calves) to possible APBEE with no definite lab results ; approx 7 days after a move into a new pasture. We have been rotational grazing here for 5 years but have had an extremely wet lush spring. The remaining 4 live cows and bull also have "blackleg" type crackling under their skin. After a vet trip, they were then on 60 cc dual pen for a week, taken completely off pasture and on dry hay and grain. To not get a definite diagnosis has been horrible and since then the calves are on grain to try to get them up to a decent weight to sell. So yeah it is possible and horrible. First time, and it didn't happen at any other pasture where we rotational graze. We have never used monensin in our mineral before but will a week before each move to the new pasture to stop the l-tryptophan from breaking down into a toxic substance. Don't wish this on anyone.

 

[Baymule]

@farmerjan that is awful. I am so sorry that you have suffered the loss of your cows and calves. How devastating.

 

[farmerjan]

Didn't lose the calves just the cows. But the calves are severely compromised because they lost their mommas at a critical age. Since no definite diagnosis was made we were left with a multiple choice and are still paying rent on a pasture that we are scared to put anything back on. It has started to dry up and we will probably move something back there, with rumensin in the mineral, in another week but I am doing another well water sample since they went from a spring-fed water in pasture 1 & 2, to well fed in pasture 3. Haven't had anything in 4 or 5 and they are on the well also. Didn't notice any of the shortness of breath but who knows. All animals will get blackleg vac. now, not just the calves.

 

[Latestarter]

Man, that's a pretty steep hit you took. Sorry for the losses. I hope the calves can make it. Losing them on top of the moms would be a double hit.

 

[greybeard]

Didn't lose the calves just the cows. But the calves are severely compromised because they lost their mommas at a critical age. Since no definite diagnosis was made we were left with a multiple choice and are still paying rent on a pasture that we are scared to put anything back on. It has started to dry up and we will probably move something back there, with rumensin in the mineral, in another week but I am doing another well water sample since they went from a spring-fed water in pasture 1 & 2, to well fed in pasture 3. Haven't had anything in 4 or 5 and they are on the well also. Didn't notice any of the shortness of breath but who knows. All animals will get blackleg vac. now, not just the calves.

Odd that the older cows would get blackleg. It's usually not contagious either.
Some questions>>>
Were these mommas home raised from calves or bought? If home raised, at what age were they vaccinated?
Have you worked the older cattle recently--done anything or seen them do anything that might cause bruising? Transport?

And, you might want to wait on moving them--I suspect you are going to get some more wet weather from one or both of the tropical systems that are affecting CONUS. I've seen and heard of more blackleg problems during drought than in wet times. Never had it in my own cattle but I vaccinate everything.

Precisely what are you looking for in the well water?

 

[farmerjan]

Yeah, been the whole route with what ifs. All but 2 of the dead cows were home raised, the other 2 have been here 2 years. All calves get blacklegged between 4-10 weeks, according to when they are getting moved from the original calving area. Cows had been in this pasture since May so were not worked, transported knocked around or anything. Just opened gate to next field and walked through. Not a run for their life but meandered through the gate and it is left open for a couple days to make sure no calf got left behind and they get oriented to the new water. Been there 5 + years so have a routine down. Move the mineral feeder through with them.

Hoped to maybe get a read out on clostridium and any other stuff; the vet thought that with all the hard rain there might have been a possibility of contamination in the well as there was some cloudiness in the water. The closeby lab that does water testing does heavy metals, and some bacteria, like for people that need water samples to sell a house, but doesn't break it down and gave me a name of another lab that might.

We do basic vaccinations with our cattle, and ALWAYS blackleg with calves, and the vet said that usually older cattle develop their own resistance as they age, but that a yearly booster won't hurt and we can do it when we preg ck and do lepto and it won't cause abortion. So everyone will get it when they go through the chute. It's cheap, and easy enough. There are some areas that are more prevelant and we are in the area that it seems to be. Have seen it with these wet warm conditions after a rain the bacteria just blooms and they pick it up in these moist conditions grazing or wet weather springs/wet spots.

Not sure it is blackleg, but the ABPEE usually does not cause the "cracklin" under the skin from what all we've researched and the vets' findings so don't know what to believe.

The info from wild rose just confirmed what we've already learned/know; Think it is more likely the ABPEE but wanted to make sure of the water since it was the OBVIOUS big change in the pastures; and it sounds like it has happened up there in canada too. You don't expect that there would be that much difference in grass from one section to another right next to each other in the same field.and it's not that they ran out of grass in #2 and went crazy eating in the next pasture. It's been a bitch to say the least.

 

[greybeard]

The remaining 4 live cows and bull also have "blackleg" type crackling under their skin

That /\ is the fly in the buttermilk....
Did your vet definitely rule out blackleg?
I wait 10-sometimes 12-14 weeks to do the blackleg vaccinations. I've always understood that when doing it earlier, the maternal but temporary immunity from momma interferes with the efficacy of the 7way.
Is it possible that your older cattle, never really got a good immunization because they were vaccinated pretty early?
But then that again brings up what the anaerobic trigger for the blackleg was......assuming it is blackleg in the surviving cows and bull.

 

[farmerjan]

Thanks for the tip on the cattle forum
We often are in the 8-12 week range when the calves get the blackleg shots but it just depends when we can get things in line to move them. Since my son and I are both employed full time at other jobs, it just depends on both our schedules. Since I am dealing with these joint issues, (and just started trying the Prolotherapy treatments) my mobility has been severely affected. Don't want replacements or fusion of the ankle unless I have exhausted everything else. However there are times when it is short notice to get the animals moved in the spring, and Mike can get other help, so sometimes they get moved younger. Haven't ruled anything out and haven't confirmed anything. But it seems likely that the live cows had blackleg....They are doing better and their lungs didn't seem compromised like the ABPEE causes, when I took them to the vet the next day after we found the dead ones and the other vet did the necropsy's that night. Our regular longtime vet retired from the practice the first of june and my faith in the other couple of vets there is not very strong... but there aren't alot of other vets around with any more positive "ratings". You know how you get used to one and like them.....Our former vet said 8-12 weeks was soon enough to blackleg due to the cows passive immunity passing through the milk but to make sure we did them before we moved them away from working facilities. But we're not losing calves so that is not at the root of the problem. Nothing will get moved for at least a week since Mike is going to be away Tues through fri. this next week and we will be baling sorgham-sudan sun or mon that he just mowed. Looks like the gulf weather is going to stay more south now so the 1/4 inch rain we got last night may be it.