Southern by Choice's Teaching Moments- Indoor LGD! Badger

[sadieml]

I used to take mice and give them a quick end if the cats played for too long, but if you do that be prepared to get the stink-eye for a few days. Sounds like your cats are just letting you know they're on the job, but prefer what you feed them. I have one girl who is almost 14, has lost 2 of her fangs and is now enjoying indoor retirement who used to be quite the huntress. She is also only 5 or 6 lbs, but will put a whupping on the young male who thinks he's boss if he gets too uppity with her (he is about 16 lbs). It's very cool that your cats don't kill birds, wish mine didn't.

 

[Beekissed]

I think I really like this Callie of yours, Southern. I love an opportunistic foraging instinct in a dog. This Ben of mine is turning out in just this way...alarmingly so. I thought Jake was an eating machine~he ate a bag of paint balls as a pup, not to mention a whole tub of dog biscuits, and chewed off the lid of a bottle of fish oil capsules and ate those...we never did find the lid..we think he ate that too.

But this Ben? He can eat a squirrel in three crunches and the tail will still be sticking out of his mouth after he has swallowed the body. Chickens heads barely get one crunch before being swallowed, same with the legs...spurs and all. We think his throat must be incredibly large and tough as leather.

 

[Southern by choice]

@Beekissed - that had me crackin' up! and then it just got better...

he ate a bag of paint balls as a pup

not to mention a whole tub of dog biscuits

and chewed off the lid of a bottle of fish oil capsules and ate those

we never did find the lid..we think he ate that too.

"we think he ate that too!"

All the dogs will eat something they catch- but they will not eat something not given to them by us. I REALLY LIKE THIS! They cannot be bribed. Not all the young dogs have been tested in this way yet but so far so good. Some of our dogs will not eat something strange unless we say go ahead. I like this as there are many dogs that get poisoned by someone throwing baited food.

Years ago there was a house broken into - they had quite a few personal protection TRAINED (professionally trained PP Dogs). They took everything- they baited raw meat with something to knock the dogs out... it did. Thankfully they didn't kill the dogs. Of course that is when even among burglars there was a "code" of ethics- don't hurt people don't hurt dogs.

These guys don't eat alot. If not cold enough they just don't eat.
They will eat deer anytime.

 

[Beekissed]

Now, how do you train them to not eat things that other people might give them? THAT would be a handy thing to be able to train into my dogs too.

I'll tell ya a funny. Today I started training on Ben to get him to "load up" by first practicing on the top of the dog house...it's about the same height as the truck bed/tailgate. I made the mistake of doing this AFTER he was fed, so he wasn't quite as keen to get the food but there's never a time he ain't hungry.

Anyhoo, showed him how Jake could do it, gave Jake food for loading up, tried to entice Ben to do the same or even just place his paws on the edge in order to get rewarded. No go. I couldn't even lift his paws up there to give him the idea, he balked like I was dragging him to slaughter. Couldn't even entice him to get close to the edge of the roof, that butt was nailed to the ground. I tried luring him towards that roof with a piece of food in front of his nose...several times he stretched his neck nearer and got a piece of food, but would not go any further to get another. Very unBen-like behavior...usually he'll half kill himself to get a piece of food.

Several times Jake loaded up and got a treat, but Ben just whined and tried to wrestle Jake when he came down. I placed food on the edge but he wouldn't approach it, wouldn't get near. I even threw food pieces up there to see if he would follow the tossed food, that got his butt off the ground but didn't get him motivated.

Finally, I just left the last bit of the food on the edge and walked away. I lurked around a tree to watch what he would do...he walked a ways like he was going to follow me, stopped and watched to see if I was watching or coming back, then he scooted back to the dog house, placed his paws up on that roof and neatly ate the morsels of food.

I do believe this behavior was what you were trying to describe when you were talking about their independence. Or bullheadedness, not sure which.

Tomorrow? If he wants his daily ration he'll be eating it on the roof of the dog house.

 

[Southern by choice]

I am picturing this!

At his age he may not be real inclined to make a high jump or leap. Large heavy boned dogs like many LGD's are really shouldn't until they feel ready. You can tell if it is that or if he is just fearful or hesitant of the new thing by doing an easy simple adjustment.
I will say it is usually just too much on them to jump high when they are young. It may not be stubborness or being bull headed at all.
Put something large in front of the tailgate so there is a "step" - something large enough he doesn't have to be so careful.Then walk up into the truck and tell him come on boy... See if he hops up and then hops to the truck.
It is alot on their growing hips, knees and leg joints. It also depends on individual structure/build of the dog.
Callie is mature so at a standstill she can jump straight up to a 4 ft spool. The young dogs can do a 3ft easily but no 4 ft. Chunk has a big wide heavy build- he uses the ramp. D will fly up over anything- IF he wants to.

As far as training with food / training to not take food from strangers. It is really very separate yet it works together.

First, I have never in all my years used food to train dogs**. I do not use food as a motivator. Training is all based on trust, loyalty, and respect. Instead of food as reward the reward is praise, trust, respect, and loyalty. I want the focus on me as the trainer not the food. If they trust me they will do whatever is asked. The food motivation concept came about in the 90's- All of us old timers pretty much loathe the concept. It seems to be the norm now. I say people should do what works for them though. This is where the second part comes in... because our dogs are not food motivated there is no incentive.

With loyalty to us strangers trying to give them food is an insult and a "bribe", in turn that person becomes a "permanent" enemy.
These dogs are smart. Now the retired LGD that lives in the house is ridiculous because the family spoils him and gives him all kinds of food but it took a whole year before he would take food from his "Aunt". And it is only if we are there in his and her presence.
He also has a weird thing for butter... that dog will steal butter any chance. He won't do that stupid foolish food thingy if I am anywhere around. He turns his head to the side and down... the rest of the family - well there is a lost cause there.

**The only time food is used for training is for tracking. Of course I don't do tracking with a LGD.


The other factor in that is I follow a very strict deworming protocol with pups - til 16-20 weeks of age... because of this they maintain a very healthy gut without parasite issues so they are not hungry all the time. LGD breeds typically are not chow hounds and often skip a day or days where they will not eat... dogs that will eat and eat and eat should be cause for concern, as they are not common housepet breeds it isn't typical. Young pups til 3 months is different.
A good example is if the dogs have already eaten and I slaughter chickens and toss them meat, sometimes they will just drag it away any cover it for later. Deer meat on the other hand- they always make room for. Many days I will pour food in their bins and they may only eat half of it.
70's last week, barely ate
40 (felt like 35) today and they were ready to eat this am... they eat in pm one time a day.

 

[Beekissed]

Sourthern, how much food(cups) does one of your dogs typically eat per day, on the days they eat an average intake?

 

[Mike CHS]

I'm amazed how little the working dogs eat once mature. Not LGDs but my 2 hear old Aussie is full grown and stands at 48 pounds while the Border Collie is 6 mos old and just passed 43 pounds. Aussie gets 1 1.2 cups a day and the BC gets 3 cups.

 

[Southern by choice]

Sourthern, how much food(cups) does one of your dogs typically eat per day, on the days they eat an average intake?

When they were younger they got a scoop in the am and pm. each. That stopped when they didn't eat one of the feedings... they kind of self -wean from 2x day.
Now they typically eat 1scoop in the eve.
It is cold now 20 something this am but felt like 15.
Right now it is 27 feels like 20.
They will be offered feed this am.
The sudden drop in temp means they will eat more to pack on some bulk. Last week it was 70+ degrees.

I will see how many cups the 3 qt scooper actually holds. It varies with kibble size of course, but it isn't 12 cups... usually between 5-7 actual cups of food per scoop.

Adult dogs generally eat 1 scoop a day. Summer they skip days or eat some and leave the rest.
We will offer all the dogs 2 feedings right now with this cold snap, they will usually eat it 2x day for a short period til they bulk and adjust to climate. This is when we give a good deal of the raw meat too... we thaw a package of chicken meat and give it.

 

[Beekissed]

Wow! No wonder your dogs aren't hungry!! I'm used to feeding Labs, which get fat on air, it seems. They usually eat 2-2.5 c. of food per day and even then I have to watch that they don't pack on the pounds at certain times of the year on the 2 cups.

I've been feeding Ben 3 cups per day. Looks like I might have to up his ration until he gets his full growth, if that is what is typical for the breed. I doubt I'll ever feed more than 5-6 c. a day, though.

 

[Latestarter]

Mel just turned a year. He has a VERY irregular eating schedule... I've tried to get him established on one but it just isn't working When he first arrived, he would eat morning and evening ~2-3 cups each time. When he got to 6 months, he would only eat once a day, usually in the evening, and NOT when I'd set his food down... Anyway, to make a long story short, I now leave food available for him basically on and off all day and overnight while he's outside by himself. Some days he'll eat 6-8 cups, and other days he doesn't eat at all When he empties the bowl, I re-fill it.

I can't leave the food down when/where my other dog has access as she'd eat a 40 pound bag in one sitting, non stop, if the opportunity presented And he won't/doesn't "protect" his food...

I need to get him to the vet so I can get an accurate weight on him. I believe he's in the 130-140 range right now (based on him putting both front paws up on my arm and when he climbs in my lap in the recliner ). There's virtually no fat on this dog... He's all muscle. Ben is going to be one BIG dog from the looks of those forearms and paws. He's about to really start growing! and he's gonna be a doggie HUNK!