The Education of Ben

[Beekissed]

Not a great pic as the sun was too bright and I took this from far away...I was afraid to go outside or he would get off the chair. I love his little solemn face as he sits on the glider, the rocker and even in a lawn chair. He has taken to doing this lately and he looks so serious as he gazes out across the land...could be his way of getting a better visual of the meadow.

I've been away for the past few days, so missed on his daily training sessions. I'm betting he'll do just fine, though, as he seems to grow more focused the older he gets.

He and Jake have been bonding well and seems to have formed an easy relationship. Jake needed an alpha pack member besides myself and he's always willing to play second fiddle...that's his nature and he does that job well. I'm hoping Ben will move into my second alpha position and claim it so I'll have at least one dog here that wards off stray dogs when I'm not around. That's my worst predator here, though it's not frequent...but promises to be more so now that we have a new neighbor who lets his chicken killing dogs roam the land.

The coyotes are present and a real danger, but as of yet they do not enter the meadow or approach the coop like the stray dogs will and do.

Ben is growing well and filling out. My son worked with him on where to poop this past week while I was out of town and it seems to have worked, but I'll be reinforcing that this week to make sure.

This pup is not real lightning quick to respond to commands or training like our last dog was as a pup, so it's taken an adjustment on my part to exercise patience and wait on him to comply. He usually gets it but takes a few moments to put it together and do the action requested.

Each dog is unique, I've found, and cannot be expected to react like another or fill the shoes of another. Ben is just fine the way he is and I think he'll be a great dog in his own right before it's all said and done. He's very sweet, quiet and calm and I love that part of him...I love it that he tries to please me. I can work with a dog like that.

 

[Southern by choice]

I wouldn't worry so much about the whole poo in the woods thing. He is 3 months old... soon enough on his own he will be going in the woods or boundary lines etc. They do this on their own with out having to be taught. As he natures he will pee on everything and especially over top of where something else peed or pood. Normal- and it is what you want.

When our goat kids are born and they are bebopping around the dogs clean up after them and wherever they pee the dogs immediately pee over the spot.

You LGD's know instinctively some things. One is when they are still too small and lack power strength and ability to do their future job. I am wondering if the woods is still a place he may not want to go off into by himself because he knows he cannot do anything. They tend to stay in a known safer area as pups.

In one of my Pyr pup posts I showed an example of this. Where pup is active and learning the job BUT when the adult stock let out a certain bark the pups stayed back and stayed put while the adults took off to investigate.

Remember these dogs are extremely different and therefore trained differently - always work within the nature of the LGD. Typical dog training is against the nature of the LGD. It is for pets.
If he was "lightening quick" to take commands I would be very concerned. People who do this, insist on first time obedience, often ruin their dogs. Totally against their nature.

I am so glad you take owning and working with Ben so seriously. It is a breathe of fresh air.


I love how they climb to the tallest thing they can so they can watch everything. LOL we got our spools for the goats but the dogs think it is "their" post! I need more spools.

 

[Beekissed]

Southern, your input is invaluable!! Thank you for helping me to understand the nature of the LGD breed. I'm still wrapping my mind around the difference between just a mix of the LGD breed and a full mix of all three of the major breeds. I'm finding out he's a little amazing in his own right and just what I needed at this time in my life...a slower, more calm dog that's as slow as I am!

He's not really scared of the woods, as he's been trying to roam off into those since his first week here and the place he needs to poop isn't full on in the woods but just a small cleared area at the border....only about 10 yds from the chicken coop. It's just a place we never walk across that borders the woods that Jake has always used. We keep the high weeds cleared there so they can easily use it.

One thing did work...I took the advice of someone on the TEG thread about containing him after his morning feeding until he grew uncomfortable, then taking him to the right area and giving positive reinforcement when he went there. My son did this for him while I was away this weekend and it seems to have worked in just one try....no more fresh piles in the yard!!!

So far.

Every other time I couldn't catch him as he was going and take him there, so maybe getting this opportunity to take him when he actually needed to go was all he really needed to understand the concept. Genius!

I'll definitely take your advice as I continue to train this pup on the basics. I don't really expect any of my dogs to be obedience champions, just know when to behave and remain calm when needed. In light of what you've told me I'm even more amazed at the progress he's made in this training, but as you've probably guessed, he's putting his own twist on the training...and that's okay with me. I want him to be confident, strong(though not strong willed or stubborn) and able to use his own mind on things....my first dog was like that and I grew to trust his judgement immensely.

He does seem to love those high points so I may construct him one of his own...I'll see if I can't get my hands on one of those spools in the meanwhile.

I'll tell you this...he's one of the sweetest dogs I've ever had the pleasure to meet. Not in a fawning all over you for affection kind of way but in a still, calm and quiet sort of way he has of waiting, of approaching and of being near me or when I handle him...not a bit squirmy or overly excited like a typical puppy. I think it would be real easy to break this dog's spirit if a person wasn't real careful...he's got a sweet, devoted little heart on him.

 

[Beekissed]

Ben is coming right along in his training, so I thought I'd report progress here, along with a few pics.

He continues to be a natural at walking at heel...I don't train or require it but that's where he stays glued whenever I'm in his boundary. It's kind of cute. If it sit, often he wants to lie down with his body touching mine or even on my shoes...not sure if that's a claiming gesture but I hope not. It doesn't seem to be...just seems like he wants to be close. He's a real sap for attention but doesn't demand it like some dogs.

He walks well on the leash due to his natural heel position...that needs no work at all, though I still do it now and again to see if he's still inclined to walk well. He's also learning step by step our feeding ritual of the dog lying down calmly to be fed. First he sat calmly...he didn't have to be told, he just mimicked Jake's behavior. Now I'm having Jake demonstrate the lie down wait and the pup~with a little coaching (can you lay down today, Ben?...and he did!)~now knows to do that too...it's just a brief hold but that's definite forward progress. As he repeats this every day and as he ages, he'll be able to hold that position for longer without getting too excited to lie still. He's an extraordinarily calm pup in the first place, so all of this is just natural to him...this is the easy stuff for both of us.

He struggled a little for his first nail clipping but soon realized I wasn't trapping him or hurting his legs, then he sat on my lap and let me finish out without too much movement. I reinforced that grooming time with much lovin' and "good boys" and he got to be on my lap, which is just heaven to him. I brushed him right after and he loved that as well.

The nail clipping will help us get through this paw thing he's doing, where he's wanting to put his paw on you if he can't get your attention at times...I'm trying to teach him not to do that. He didn't do it any today, so that's progress...he had plenty of opportunity to do so but did not.

Had some great bonding time with him throughout the training and grooming moments with him today. Didn't get a chance to work with him about where to poop today but saw him pooping right beside the desired area, which got him a "Good boy, Ben!!!" yelled across the yard. Yesterday I had scooped poop from the wrong place, used negative tones with him while doing so, then took him along to the right place and praised him when I dropped his load there. I'm hoping the near poop was the result of that ritual...that shows promise if that is so.

Ben had a good day today...only one infraction and that one isn't really his fault, so will put it down to confusion over the boundaries and how they are reinforced.

 

[babsbag]

Both of my LGDs give me their paws, but not for attention, it is more of a greeting. I always take it and tell them what good dogs they are. My border collies don't do it, it is definitely an LGD thing. I understand not wanting that big paw on your arm or back, those nails can hurt sometimes, but it is endearing in its own doggie way so I tolerate it, for some reason telling them "no" or ignoring it seems like an insult.

 

[Mike CHS]

My Aussie will do the greet with his paw thing but our Border Collie will just sit and wait for the petting that he expects whenever you get near him.

 

[goatgurl]

my Katie will wrap her foot and leg around me when I'm sitting on a bucket in the goat yard. she only does it when I'm sitting down. cracks me up, i think of it as a puppy hug.

 

[Beekissed]

Both of my LGDs give me their paws, but not for attention, it is more of a greeting. I always take it and tell them what good dogs they are. My border collies don't do it, it is definitely an LGD thing. I understand not wanting that big paw on your arm or back, those nails can hurt sometimes, but it is endearing in its own doggie way so I tolerate it, for some reason telling them "no" or ignoring it seems like an insult.

My Lucy (GP mix) did it too and I didn't mind it much...until I started taking her to the nursing home to visit the old folks, who loved her so very much. I had to really watch that paw then...old skin tears like tissue paper. I had already taught Jake to "shake" and "high five" by then but wished I hadn't, as both dogs would use those paws to get attention when people stopped a petting session.

I know this pup is doing it in a harmless fashion also but it's still not a good thing to start or encourage...most folks don't want a dirty dog's paw on their pant leg, nor do they want those claws on their skin. LGD or not, he's got to learn proper socialization in this setting. Maybe if he spent his entire life out on the range with a herd that wouldn't ever be an issue but here he is guarding close to a home where people visit in his boundary quite frequently.

I have no doubt that he can learn when it's okay and when it's not...he's a smart little dog. This morning he laid down for his food without having any cues....VERY smart, very quick to understand what I want from him on many things. I give him lots of good reinforcement when he picks up on things like that and it seems to keep him working for that approval.

 

[bonbean01]

Ben is beautiful! Reminds me of my girl at that age, and yes...these are very special dogs for sure
Had to change my avatar since Keera is no longer a little puppy....although on our first chilly mornings...she appeared to be very young again...LOL

Enjoying reading about the Education of Ben, and that pic of him in the chair is priceless

 

[Latestarter]

My Anatolian/Pyr mix always gives me his paw by way of greeting and letting me know he loves me. Almost like (but more meaningful than when) men shake hands on greeting or folks giving a hug on greeting. When I get down on a knee, he will sometimes give me both paws, sit up on his haunches and bury his head in my chest or arm pit while I scratch his neck & behind his ears. That is such close bonding. I don't know, but for me, telling him no or not allowing him to greet me like that would be like walking up to your spouse and when they try to hug/kiss you, saying no and turning them away. It's NOT like a typical pet dog giving a paw to be cute or demanding attention. It's conveying THEIR affection to and for us. Now, you can say "there's a time and place for that sort of thing," But the dog is NOT human, and doesn't understand that, they love us 100%, 24/7, and who would want it any other way?

Of course I understand your point as well, with thin skinned older folks... Mine rarely offers his paw to anyone else. I think he's offered it to my oldest daughter once. He will however press up against folks he likes, and that seems to me to be more hazardous than the paw as he's very strong, and very big/heavy. Mel has always been ultra gentle with his paws, and he's ~110-115 pounds now, and is almost 10 mos old. But if you aren't prepared, he can push you across a room or push you over if you aren't prepared for his body press.