There's a new macrocyclic lactone (____ectin) dewormer!

[cmjust0]

It's called Caprimec, by a company out of Australia called Virbac.. The active ingredient is abamectin, and some trials show it to be different enough from ivermectin (Ivomec) or moxidectin (Cydectin) that it should be considered a new, 3rd _ectin alternative to ivomec- and cydectin-resistant parasites.

And, it's a drench! And it's labelled specifically for goats! No guesswork...no "such and such said to use it this way..." -- just buy it, read the directions, and use it.

Now, are you ready for the best part?

We can't have it, because it's not available in the USA.


( Oh, I will have this dewormer. You just mark my words.. I fully intend to rustle up a jug somehow. )

 

[cmjust0]

This is almost as frustrating as the day I heard about Zolvix .

 

[lupinfarm]

You know what CM, lol.. you may be missing out on that wormer, but you are not as unlucky as me!! I can't get any shots, most wormers, goat feeds (including noble goat, not sold here), goat panels, goat feeders/halters/etc. I can't buy goat specific minerals, not a single thing!

Vets have a monopoly on medications/shots here, the only shot I can get is CD/T in a huge bottle and *some* as in 2 kinds of antibiotic, neither labeled for goats.

Yeahh...You've got it easy.

 

[cmjust0]

I wept for I had no shoes, until I met a man who had no feet -- Chinese proverb.

I hear ya.

Still mad, though.

 

[FarmerChick]

USA has its own regulations for a reason.

wait, it might come.

and there are TONS of safe wormers on the market that work fine.



but yea, denied...the word denied "anything" makes me mad anyway..LOL--but then again, alot "out there" we don't truly want here anyway.

 

[cmjust0]

USA has its own regulations for a reason.

wait, it might come.

and there are TONS of safe wormers on the market that work fine.



but yea, denied...the word denied "anything" makes me mad anyway..LOL--but then again, alot "out there" we don't truly want here anyway.

My impression of the situation is that the vet pharma companies specifically target Australia and New Zealand for R & D on their sheep & goat stuff simply because sheep and goats are such a large part of their ag economies....primarily sheep. Probably makes economical sense to spend the money there, whereas in the US.....well, let's face it....the sheep population went from 50mm+ head in the '40s to like 5mm head today, and there are probably even less goats in the US today than there are sheep! Sheep and goats combined account for a VERY small percentage of US livestock receipts....one or two percent, tops, with the balance being primarily hogs and cattle.

What I'd like to see -- and I just thought this up about 4 minutes ago, so I'm reserving the right to change my mind without notice -- is some sort of reciprocity agreement with Australia/New Zealand on sheep and goat products. Like...if it gets approved there, USDA rubber stamps it and makes it available in the US.

Overnight, we get Zolvix, Glanvac-3 (pfizer's on-label C/D-T & CL vax for goats), Caprimec, CIDRs become legal...I'm sure the list goes on and on of stuff we've probably not even heard of yet. Not only would that help little guys like us, I'm sure it would also help the small ruminant ag sector as a whole..

Oh, and as for there being plenty of wormers that work fine...that may be true now, but for how much longer? There are really only three classes of wormers -- whites, _ectins, and levasole.. Whites hardly work at all anymore, _ectins are fading fast, and anything containing levamisole is, for all intents and purposes, extinct.

Combine that with what appears to be vet pharma's non-interest in providing new small-ruminant anthelmintics to the US market and it certainly wouldn't appear to be a great situation to be in, going forward.

 

[FarmerChick]

we can not rely on chemicals all the time.....good husbandry and natural helpers should play into the backyard famers usage.

I agree.....when approved and noted good for animal husbandry in other countries--FAST approval should happen to be used here.....well fast, huh, whatever goes fast..LOL

do not rotate wormers until you can prove fecal exam wise etc. that the wormer of choice is not working to full sufficiency.....then you switch to a new one and ride it out for the course combined with pasture rotation and all.

it is never simple....can't be..LOL...but there are ways to make it all work.

 

[no nonsense]

CM, you disappoint me man. I thought that you got it.
Yes, it would be nice if we could quickly follow along with some of the sensible English speaking countries like Australia, which aren't run by a bunch or religious zealots blind to all but the teachings on some cryptic text found under a rock near the Sea of Galillee, but there's good reason why we have the process. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that our government bureaucrasy has some part in it, but does anyone remember a new drug called ProHeart 6? To refresh your memory, it was another one of the greatest things coming down the pike, touted by the pharmacutical company as being completely safe, because it was used for years in Australia. It even came in this neat new technology of microspheres, injected under the skin where they slowly released an ectin for 6 months. No more monthly heartworm pills to forget. Low and behold, the complaints started rolling in. Now I will admit that this may not be the best example, and I'm perfectly willing to concede that maybe the majority of those complaints were from idiots whose animals had something else going on anyway, but who were just looking for a boogyman in the form of this new fangled drug. (anyone remember the ethoxyquin scare in the 80's?) Nonetheless, Fort Dodge pulled it voluntarily, and those of us with any intelligence know that means that if they didn't, FDA was going to do it for them, which means more trouble in the long run. Again, a bad example, because it's recently been reintroduced to the market after a thorough review by FDA, but my point is that it did go through the process, and still there were concerns. Still, we occasionally hear about a human drug which does the same thing.

Now it strikes me as very hypocritical for a lot of small farmers to complain that we don't have a drug because it's not worth the money for the pharmaceutical companies to pay for the FDA's testing procedures when there are too few animals of the target species in this country to let them make back the money. How many small farmers make the decision all the time not to call the veterinarian, to try to learn how to doctor an animal themselves, because the animal is worth less than the vet bill will be? Same thing. I submit that if more people were willing to pay for veterinary services, then we might have more drugs at our disposal.

Then there's the very real concern for antibiotic resistance. Anyone who thinks that veterinarians have a monopoly on drugs, confuses monopoly with education. A quick view of some of the pages here should give you the idea that the general public just doesn't have the knowledge, and often the sense to use them properly. CM, this is even more of a threat than your wormer resistance. There are other ways to help reduce parasites, and I'm not talking about garlic or that stupid magic dust that they're all inhaling. Rotational grazing for example. I know, not always practical, but if it's any consolation, it's not practical for most of our commercial producers either, and you can bet that when they start experiencing serious resistance, there will something new approved for them, which probably will help us too.

 

[cmjust0]

While I'm half tempted to dismiss the entire above post as possibly being the result of some sort of intoxication, I'm actually going to address it point by point. I would address it as a whole, but it's frankly not coherent enough to allow for it.

CM, you disappoint me man. I thought that you got it.

And we're off!

Yes, it would be nice if we could quickly follow along with some of the sensible English speaking countries like Australia, which aren't run by a bunch or religious zealots blind to all but the teachings on some cryptic text found under a rock near the Sea of Galillee, but there's good reason why we have the process.

Soooo.. Basically what you're saying is that we're backward morons -- but for good reason!

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure that our government bureaucrasy has some part in it, but does anyone remember a new drug called ProHeart 6? To refresh your memory, it was another one of the greatest things coming down the pike, touted by the pharmacutical company as being completely safe, because it was used for years in Australia. It even came in this neat new technology of microspheres, injected under the skin where they slowly released an ectin for 6 months. No more monthly heartworm pills to forget. Low and behold, the complaints started rolling in. Now I will admit that this may not be the best example,

Yet, you just made me read an entire paragraph about it. Thanks!

and I'm perfectly willing to concede that maybe the majority of those complaints were from idiots whose animals had something else going on anyway, but who were just looking for a boogyman in the form of this new fangled drug. (anyone remember the ethoxyquin scare in the 80's?) Nonetheless, Fort Dodge pulled it voluntarily, and those of us with any intelligence know that means that if they didn't, FDA was going to do it for them, which means more trouble in the long run. Again, a bad example,

Not just a bad example...a bad example that keeps going, and going, and going..

because it's recently been reintroduced to the market after a thorough review by FDA, but my point is that it did go through the process, and still there were concerns. Still, we occasionally hear about a human drug which does the same thing.

So, in a nutshell what you've basically just said is:

A) You're disappointed in me
B) I don't get it
C) America is mostly retarded, but
D) America is stringent when it comes to approving drugs, which is awesome because
E) sometimes bad drugs get through anyway, which is...
F) um..oh, wait. There's actually no F); it just sorta dropped off right there after making NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

Now it strikes me as very hypocritical for a lot of small farmers to complain that we don't have a drug because it's not worth the money for the pharmaceutical companies to pay for the FDA's testing procedures when there are too few animals of the target species in this country to let them make back the money. How many small farmers make the decision all the time not to call the veterinarian, to try to learn how to doctor an animal themselves, because the animal is worth less than the vet bill will be? Same thing. I submit that if more people were willing to pay for veterinary services, then we might have more drugs at our disposal.

Well, it doesn't make me a hypocrite to complain, because I do use my vet for my goats, and I "encourage" others to do the same (with guilt and shame, if necessary...or even just if possible).

Indeed, I've made the exact same argument on this very forum many times before. Which is to say....who exactly are you talking to?!?

Then there's the very real concern for antibiotic resistance.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand we're officially off the reservation.

Anyone who thinks that veterinarians have a monopoly on drugs, confuses monopoly with education.

Which is clearly what I've done.

A quick view of some of the pages here should give you the idea that the general public just doesn't have the knowledge, and often the sense to use them properly. CM, this is even more of a threat than your wormer resistance.

My wormer resistance? Who said I was battling wormer resistance? I'm not...not yet, anyway. I'm managing so far.

I'm just jealous of Austrailians and frustrated with Virbac for not putting Caprimec in the US.

Perhaps I should have made that more clear from the outset.

There are other ways to help reduce parasites, and I'm not talking about garlic or that stupid magic dust that they're all inhaling.

Speaking of magic dust... Have you, by any chance.......oh, nevermind.

Rotational grazing for example. I know, not always practical, but if it's any consolation, it's not practical for most of our commercial producers either, and you can bet that when they start experiencing serious resistance, there will something new approved for them, which probably will help us too.

Um.. Ok?

 

[lupinfarm]

CM, I think some of those comments may have been directed at me

I'm sorry nn, but the vets DO have a monopoly here. We cannot purchase ANYTHING. We are so restricted here, I can't even get sevin dust now because of our pesticide ban.

I know vets pay out the nose for that education, but you know what, there are a lot of vaccines/medications that we should be able to administer ourselves. I'm lucky that my equine vet will give me the vaccines to administer myself because he knows I administer my goats vaccines, but most people don't have that luxury.

We can't even purchase feeds for our goats.

Maybe because you live in the US you have that luxury of being able to acquire most vaccines and medications through companies like Jeffers, but we don't have that and it's extremely frustrating and hard to raise any animal.

My vet won't even sell me the Tetanus Antitoxin or EPI pens.

On top of that? My local farm supply is closing.. so now I have no where to get goat feed when mine runs out, I absolutely refuse to purchase TSC feeds, they're not very good quality and I had finally found a sweet grain with little molasses.

And since I'm getting a buck and wether in March/April, I'd prefer and would require Noble Goat .. well it's not sold here, so I'm going to have to find out from customs if I can bring some back across the border.

We are drastically undersupplied/underserviced and most of the reason for our lack of vaccines/wormers is our enormous vet community who, partnered with the CKC, have limited our access through the law.


I DO use my vet, but I DON'T see the necessity for me to use my vet for simple vaccinations, subcutaneously.