New Livestock Med Laws!!

[babsbag]

The only antibiotics I have ever used are Oxytetracycline and Penicillin and the Pen only when I am told to. I really don't like to administer that drug.

 

[NH homesteader]

I've never had to use antibiotics... I am really not looking forward to it. Won't do it without a vet anyway so won't affect me much. I am still a little confused as to who this will affect the most because I am confused about what exactly is going to still be available and what is not.

Like, are medicated feeds included? I don't use them, but I have used medicated feed in the past for hatchery chicks. I used it for my runt piglet briefly per the breeder's recommendation.

Clueless here...

 

[greybeard]

However, this is what the label on the injectable says that it is to be used for. So there would be no ELDU for the injectable for cocci. But right now you can still buy it and use it.

Yes--right now. But, after the effective date of the new FDA rules (Jan 2017) one cannot (by law) USE any drug requiring VFD unless they have a vet's prescription for said drug or other substance.
Doesn't matter when it was purchased. After effective date, the user will still need to have that prescription on file both at home and with the prescribing vet.

NH Homesteader:
Yes, some medicated feeds are affected. I've already seen the new labels on medicated creep feed for calves.
And this, from Hi-Pro feeds:
The Veterinary Feed Directive law (VFD) goes into effect starting January 1, 2017. VFD’s will be required to purchase VFD medicated feeds.

Drugs that are considered medically important to human medicine will require a Veterinary Feed Directive to be purchased. This Feed containing Aureomycin(chlortetracycline) will require a VFD at that time.

CTC fed for “Increased rate of weight gain and feed efficiency” will no longer be legal. Creep Feed will be offered as a non medicated product or as a custom mix containing CTC at a approved level requiring a VFD.
(CTC=Chloretetracycline)

I'm not sure how this will be handled at Point of Purchase, but I suspect it will be similar to how restricted herbicides are sold. Many herbicides and pesticides sold at even Tractor Supply are restricted--you need an applicator's license to buy them. Each jug of a restricted substance has a big orange label across it that says "RESTRICTED PRODUCT" and to buy it, you have to present your license at the checkout counter. I'm guessing they will be asking to see a prescription for any medicated feeds as well.

 

[babsbag]

The injectable DI-Methox will still be available after Jan but by law it should never be used for cocci as it isn't labeled as such but because it is not intended to be added to food or administered orally it will slip under the law and the need for a VFD.

But the powder and liquid are labeled for cocci and should be available with VFD.

As far as medicated feed it depends on what medication is in it. If it is for cocci, such as rumensin in goat feed and medicated chick starter, then it should still be available. It is only antibiotics that they are targeting at this time.

I lied, I did use Scour Halt once with some baby goats.

 

[misfitmorgan]

Why reccommend people 'stock up" since the rules are very explicit?
Not only will it be illegal to buy it without prescription from a licensed vet, it will also be illegal to USE it without said prescription, regardless of when you purchased it. You can't stock up and still be in compliance.

2. Can I stock up in December and feed after Jan 1st?

There is nothing to prevent you from buying a large amount of a VFD medicated product in December. However, in order to legally feed or use that product after Jan 1st, you will need to have a valid VFD on file at home and with your veterinarian.


................

Greatly discouraged?
Hardly descriptive enough--they can lose their license for recommending any off label use of many drugs, probably including the one in question and it will only get worse after the new rules go in to effect. There are already a number of feeds that have previously carried a label claiming some therapeutic value that simply will not be available after the new year.

Well considering many many people who are not commercial producers use off-label medications on their livestock all the time without asking a vet and also go to other states to get things that are illegal to use in their state.....is why i said stock up if you use it. Those of us not fortunate enough to have a goat/sheep vet or a large animal vet close enough to actually come to the farm. we do what we need to do to take care of the animals whether it complies with FDA or not.

Vets have always been able to lose their license for prescribing off-label meds, this new law will not change that and not stop most of them from doing it. The only way to legally use any off-label med is to have it prescribed by a vet to a specific animal/herd for a specific time frame as far as i understand it. Guess i don't really understand your point here, losing their license is not a new thing..the new laws will just make it easier for the gov to check up on the vets and producers.

 

[greybeard]

the new laws will just make it easier for the gov to check up on the vets and producers.

That, is my point. The new rules will require both the livestock owner and the vet to document anti-bacterial use in more detail, making it easier for the authorities to audit either. FDA has already, notified at least 2 producers that during the 1st year of implementation,they will be under scrutiny and will be audited. That, is a courtesy. Going forward, I doubt there will be any advance warning or notifications.

Agencies such as the FDA don't work blindly--their compliance enforcement divisions have powerful tools nowadays to find out if their rules are being followed, and crawling the internet search engines for key words is one of those tools. They will make every reasonable effort to make sure their rules are being followed, and if their research shows there is a lot of skirting of the rules, they will implement even stronger regulations--even to the point of pulling all human/livestock use medications from the arsenal of weapons we use to keep our stock healthy. This is not nearly the only board where I have seen these sort of subjects brought up--every ag forum I have visited in the last few months has one similar. A few website admins have deleted or locked the threads and for good reason. They understand the effectiveness of search bots that crawl every website on the web.

It's not just the agencies themselves either. Something called "Social Justice" activists will be more than happy to complain to the convening authorities that 'we' are not following the laws, should they happen upon threads such as this one.

These rules came into effect because the general public, and especially the end consumers of meat and dairy wanted them to. We as producers, big and small, are very much in the minority. I saw recently, this VFD subject come up in the "off topic" section of a car forum I am on. Someone explained the rules, and asked for comments. Every single respondent was of the same mind. No one blamed the drug companies, the feed mills, or the feed stores, or Tractor Supply, or the vets. Every person blamed 'us'--you and I, and they saw no difference between a big farmer that sold or treated 500 animals each spring and 250 hobbyists that sold or treated 2 animals each. The end effect, is the same.

I don't at all advocate that this thread be locked or deleted, but we should be careful in what we say in regards to our activities vis-a-vis VFD--we members aren't the only ones reading...
IMO, public posting of suggestions of how to avoid these rules can be counter-productive. It plays right into the mindset of the general public that livestock producers are over medicating or un-necessarily medicating with human use anti-bacterials.

I sure don't like, that I will have to drive the 28 miles one way to my vet to get a prescription for medicated creep feed, but I'm going to do it, because that's the law.

 

[misfitmorgan]

I understand your concern but myself and those who live locally to me will not be following those new laws. It is not practical and not feasible for most. If the FDA wants to come and get me and my 7 goats they can feel free too....they first have to prove i was using VFD meds in my livestock after the cut off date and without a script so good luck to them.

You have your views and i have mine.

I am certain as heck not going to drive the 51 miles one way to go to the vet who knows nothing about livestock and charges $108 for an office visit even without an animal there, nor am i going to drive 32miles to the other vet where i have to leave work 2hrs early to make it there before they close, and i definitely am not driving 69miles one way to the closest large animal vet who last treated a goat 7 years before i went there.....in fact the closest vet who knows jack about goats is 139miles one way. The other yahoo's closer to me wont give scripts without first developing a farm relationship...but wont come to the farm unless you have an office relationship first...which makes no sense. I have called every vet i could find in a reasonable distance and they will not come do a farm call even if i offer to pay extra for travel time/gas/etc. I used one vet for our lamb last year and he had never seen a lamb before, that ended up costing me around $700 by the time it was done and then 2 months later when i asked if they would do a farm call they said no but i was welcome to bring all my livestock to the office, including the animals who were due soon. To top that all off i had to explain to them what testing i wanted done and what samples they needed to collect because they werent sure and then they asked me if i happened to know where the best place to send the samples was.

So no i wont be doing that.

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[greybeard]

I understand your concern but myself and those who live locally to me will not be following those new laws. It is not practical and not feasible for most. If the FDA wants to come and get me and my 7 goats they can feel free too....they first have to prove i was using VFD meds in my livestock after the cut off date and without a script so good luck to them.

You have your views and i have mine.

I am certain as heck not going to drive the 51 miles one way to go to the vet who knows nothing about livestock and charges $108 for an office visit even without an animal there, nor am i going to drive 32miles to the other vet where i have to leave work 2hrs early to make it there before they close, and i definitely am not driving 69miles one way to the closest large animal vet who last treated a goat 7 years before i went there.....in fact the closest vet who knows jack about goats is 139miles one way. The other yahoo's closer to me wont give scripts without first developing a farm relationship...but wont come to the farm unless you have an office relationship first...which makes no sense. I have called every vet i could find in a reasonable distance and they will not come do a farm call even if i offer to pay extra for travel time/gas/etc. I used one vet for our lamb last year and he had never seen a lamb before, that ended up costing me around $700 by the time it was done and then 2 months later when i asked if they would do a farm call they said no but i was welcome to bring all my livestock to the office, including the animals who were due soon. To top that all off i had to explain to them what testing i wanted done and what samples they needed to collect because they werent sure and then they asked me if i happened to know where the best place to send the samples was.

So no i wont be doing that.

We will have to agree to disagree.

yep.

Most of the time, If I need a vet's assistance, I pen, load, and haul them to her. She has more assets available there than she can haul out here. Same with my secondary vet, over in the next county. If it's an emergency and I can't get one of them loaded or even up, I will still call one of them to come out.

I've usually done all the vaccinations and routine health care maintenance on all my animals but
to further my veterinarian-client-patient- relationship, (which is a big component of VFD) I will probably let my vet do the vaccinations this next spring, which will allow her to get a better idea of how I do things, my herd's general health and condition, better knowledge of my handling facility, as well as having better insight as to how knowledgeable and experienced I am. That way, when I need something like Nuflor or Draxxin, it won't be a problem to run by and pick it up from her, or to have the legal documentation available if I need some medicated feed or other product from a local retailer.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/DevelopmentApprovalProcess/ucm448871.htm#accountable

This is the letter that FDA sent to all retailers and distributors regarding VFD. Looks like they "may" be leaving the point of purchase enforcement between retailer and customer up to the individual state regulatory agencies.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/Animal...ce/JudiciousUseofAntimicrobials/UCM507354.pdf

 

[babsbag]

I have never had my vet out to my farm but I have had a few of my goats to her office. But now that I have the dairy on the horizon I need all the goats tested for TB so she is coming to my place, twice. Hopefully I won't need much more than that from her and since I don't use medicated feed with goats unless I have a catastrophic event in my herd I should be good, at least for another year. My vet is also a friend so that helps with the level of trust she has in my skills. I need to take a goat to her she is only 20 miles away and I have a horse trailer so unless there is an emergency and the goat is down I am ok going to her.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

@greybeard I like your way of thinking!

I don't at all advocate that this thread be locked or deleted, but we should be careful in what we say in regards to our activities vis-a-vis VFD--we members aren't the only ones reading...
IMO, public posting of suggestions of how to avoid these rules can be counter-productive. It plays right into the mindset of the general public that livestock producers are over medicating or un-necessarily medicating with human use anti-bacterials.

I sure don't like, that I will have to drive the 28 miles one way to my vet to get a prescription for medicated creep feed, but I'm going to do it, because that's the law.

I completely agree. People do not realize how popular these forums are and who is reading. I'm not trying to sound paranoid, but I know groups are being watched. I understand the want to help others but so many (not just on BYH) suggests to use xyz drug for ---------. In the goat world just about every drug is off label too… Not good.

I came across an old thread on a huge, very popular goat forum that I'm not even a part of. Very well known site.
Someone was selling about 80cc's of Nuflor
They had only used 20cc's and didn't think they'd need it.

Anyway, a Rx antibiotic being sold over the internet.

Now, I realize that I'm pretty much re-posting that, but people need to be smart and think.

Obviously this doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen.

More and more vets are afraid to sell a whole bottle of something for someone to keep it on their shelf for this reason.