What next? Bottle Jaw. Really?

[Our7Wonders]

Thanks Elevan - all things to look into for sure.

I called around looking for a place to test my hay. The only local place I could find only checks for protein content. Then I found another place then can run a nutritional analysis, but they not able to check for toxins, which is what I was most concerned about. And by the time I shipped it and paid for the testing I would be pretty close to the cost of another ton of hay - and still likely not closer to any answers.

Her neck looks better today - it's still there but not as big as it was yesterday afternoon. We'll see how she progresses through the day today. And we'll have the vet out next week to draw blood for testing - in addition to the panel we'll also have CAE and Johnne's tests done just to rule out all possibilities.

I appreciate everyone's insight. Thanks much!

 

[cmjust0]

Floppy?.. Edema generally isn't floppy...edema is kinda semi-hard, but spongy. Like, you can usually press your thumb into edema and leave an imprint.

I've never personally had a case of bottlejaw (my time's coming -- don't worry) so I don't *know* that to be true for bottlejaw specifically...but that's generally how edema works.

Anybody here ever pressed their thumb into the swelling of a known bottlejaw case to see if it leaves an indentation??

 

[20kidsonhill]

Floppy?.. Edema generally isn't floppy...edema is kinda semi-hard, but spongy. Like, you can usually press your thumb into edema and leave an imprint.

I've never personally had a case of bottlejaw (my time's coming -- don't worry) so I don't *know* that to be true for bottlejaw specifically...but that's generally how edema works.

Anybody here ever pressed their thumb into the swelling of a known bottlejaw case to see if it leaves an indentation??

I've got the one standing in my back yard, right now, and i could see how someone could discribe it as floppy, At first it looked filled in and puffy, but as the swelling went down it left a floppy-loose skin look for a couple days. But she was pretty bad to begin with.

 

[Our7Wonders]

I wouldn't call what I saw spongey - it was pretty loose. It wasn't firm by any means. There's a link here that shows photos similar to what she looked like:

http://www.barnonemeatgoats.com/wormsorno.html

She was pretty close to the second picture - the one of the brown goat with horns. Hers may not have been quite that large, but pretty close. It is better today. Not gone, but much better.

I really am at a loss. And I hate just throwing meds at her in the hopes that something might work. If they were meds that remotely matched symptoms it would be one thing.

 

[Our7Wonders]

Hmmm.

Just had a possible light bulb moment.

This is my goat that is my neurotic screamer. She wears the bark collar - and it's been working to mellow her out. Collar has to be worn pretty snug on the neck - I didn't even think about the collar causing the swelling - a possibility? It's not stangle tight - she's able to eat and chew cud and all that. She's been wearing it for 10-12 hours during the day - it's off all night.

I didn't put her collar on her today. She still had some swelling this morning, though it was much better than yesterday. I'll check her neck in a few hours and see how she looks.

It would be great if this wasn't bottle jaw after all - but it's odd that after 4 weeks of wearing it she just suddenly swelled up.

 

[20kidsonhill]

Didn't you say she was looking anemic?

 

[Our7Wonders]

Yes, but she's been looking anemic to me for a while now. Just before she kidded I had a fecal run to make sure she wasn't wormy. Clean. I started her on red cell for about a week and then she kidded I had read that copper imbalance can cause anemia so I gave copasure the day after kidding. I was hoping that alone would turn things around. She pinked up a little - though she hasn't ever gotten to the deep pink stage that she should be at.

Her brittle coat issues continued. At three weeks post kidding I had another fecal run just to make sure we didn't get a worm bloom. Clean.

Then yesterday with the swelling I immediately checked her eyelids. Pale pink.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

Coccidiosis, - She's older than normally expected for this, but you never know unless you test for it...

Cocci would have showed up on the fecal.

I'm with cm, I'm not entirely convinced it's worms. While my goat vet DID say that there is room for error with a fecal, unless your vet is a complete idiot there is no way that a fecal would come back CLEAN and the goat would have such a high load as to cause bottle jaw. That I'm not buying.

Seriously, my goat looked just like she had bottle jaw. Her face was swollen all along the muzzle, cheek, and jaw line just like the brown goat in the link you posted. Except that around her nostril was where it got started then kept getting worse. If I hadn't seen her until after the rest of her face had puffed up I'd have sworn it was bottle jaw. As it was I still had a hard time talking myself out of it! And I saw it puff up! If you haven't given her benadryl yet I'd do so. I don't see where it could hurt and it had a rapid effect on my doe's face.

 

[elevan]

Can you get a couple of bales of hay from a new source? Separate her and feed her the new hay...if it's your current batch of hay, she should clear up very quickly.

If it's an allergic reaction...which is a possibility...you'd know after giving benadryl within an hour or two cause the swelling should completely go away.

 

[SDGsoap&dairy]

It took about 24 hours for my doe's swelling to subside completely after giving benadryl. But it did start to go down right away.