Why is Midnight doing this to Chestnut?

Carla D

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I haven't had to deal with this with my goats so much (nowhere near what you'll deal with) as I live in NE TX, but we DO have a "few" pretty cold (sub freezing) nights here in the winter. If you have the goats in a temperature controlled (read heated) environment, they'll not have the chance to "adapt over time" or acclimate to the colder outside weather. The result could be sick goats over the winter, or goats living full time in the house with you. As long as they have full time access to a dry/enclosed (non heated) place that gets them out of the wind/wet/weather, they should be mostly fine outdoors. They'll grow in a thicker winter coat, like most animals do, and then shed it out come spring. They may need a few more calories added to their diets to provide that extra energy to burn. They'll need some bedding material that they can snuggle down into such as hay/straw/wood chips-flakes/etc. Don't know if you've ever laid down in a pile of dried leaves or the like... You'll heat up and get mighty warm pretty quick.
I think we are going to get them a nice outside area this fall. I’ll feed them in the morning and put them outside for the day and bring them in at night when I go to feed them. I plan on doing this as long as they can tolerate it. Having sick goats is the last thing I want. But, I don’t think they will tolerate their rapidly shrinking quarters for much longer. I’m hoping if they are outside most days, at least until it gets too cold for them outside that they can tolerate their current quarters at least at night. I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with them outside all winter with them being as young as they are. But, they are also growing much faster than I expected. Maybe they are a bit tougher than I think as well. I still occasionally see them shivering from time to time. Especially during the time when their heat lamp isn’t on. We don’t run it continuously at this point. It is on a timer. If I notice they can tolerate it being off more than 30 minutes at A time I’ll make have it off a bit longer. Or have it on longer than I do at the moment. At night it’s on 1.5 hour-off 30 minutes cycles. During the day it runs on for 60 minutes-off 30 minutes cycles. I don’t want them to freeze/shiver, but I also want to encourage them to grow a winter coat if it isn’t too late. Some of them do have thicker fur than others, but I don’t think it’s thick enough for those little bodies to stay warm if it dips below freezing. If that makes sense.
 

Carla D

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I haven't had to deal with this with my goats so much (nowhere near what you'll deal with) as I live in NE TX, but we DO have a "few" pretty cold (sub freezing) nights here in the winter. If you have the goats in a temperature controlled (read heated) environment, they'll not have the chance to "adapt over time" or acclimate to the colder outside weather. The result could be sick goats over the winter, or goats living full time in the house with you. As long as they have full time access to a dry/enclosed (non heated) place that gets them out of the wind/wet/weather, they should be mostly fine outdoors. They'll grow in a thicker winter coat, like most animals do, and then shed it out come spring. They may need a few more calories added to their diets to provide that extra energy to burn. They'll need some bedding material that they can snuggle down into such as hay/straw/wood chips-flakes/etc. Don't know if you've ever laid down in a pile of dried leaves or the like... You'll heat up and get mighty warm pretty quick.
I have done that. Well, jumped in a huge pile and laid there for a while. There are lots leaves on the farm. I’ve actually a bunch up and brought them into their little palace along with some freshly pulled long grass. They were in heaven.
 

Carla D

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I love the information that mini horses gave you...my nigerian dwarfs that are not registered, all have horns. That being said, i have just recently received a accidental horn in the temple, and one in the jaw...it hurts ! But, horns also make good "grab bars" if needed. We do dehorn the registered goats., but they are kept in another herd away from the horned ones.....wishing you much happiness in your goating adventure :weee:love
few but’s to my nose and mouth as well. It sure does smart. But I know it wasn’t intentional. Usually when that happens I have 1-3 little guys clambering to get on my lap so they can help their little friends finish their bottle. I’m not sure when this happened, but they all of a sudden got darn near too heavy for me to lift them over the lower door to their area when they escape on one of us either coming or going out of their domaine. I’m going to have to figure out a method to feed them without sitting in a chair or lifting them onto where my daughter and I feed them. It’s much easier feeding one or two at a time versus having all of them trying to drink off of the same bottle.
 

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They are boys, and they are going to be heavy, strong, and demanding... I believe you're in for some major adjustments pretty soon... When they start fighting each other to be "first in line", you or your daughter may pay a damaging price. Please be careful and start planning now. They will grow fast.
 

Carla D

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They are boys, and they are going to be heavy, strong, and demanding... I believe you're in for some major adjustments pretty soon... When they start fighting each other to be "first in line", you or your daughter may pay a damaging price. Please be careful and start planning now. They will grow fast.
Oh, I’m pretty sure it’s only a matter of days. I think I want to build something like this and hang it from the door at feeding times. Once they have full bellies then she and I can go in and love up on some goats. They sure are growing fast. They may have nearly tripled in the time we’ve had them. I didn’t think they’d get this big before Christmas. I guess I was way off on that. At this rate they could be 50-75# I’m guessing now. Do you think I’m far off? Because if that’s the case I’m going to have to turn their lamp off except possibly during nighttime. We won’t be able to sneak into their area without them jumping over the door before we even get into their area.
 

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Ummmm really? truthfully? honestly? OK... not to be harsh, but it has been alluded to and I'll just say it straight out. At their present age (8 weeks or so?), they really don't need the heat lamp at all, and in fact you are doing them a disservice by providing it. :hide It may be too late now, but on all but the coldest nights (I'm talking real sub freezing) I would NOT turn the heat light on, and definitely not during the day.

It's now late fall coming into winter and you are preventing them from adjusting to the coming winter weather. :(:hide If you have a bad winter storm with an arctic blast, and lose power, they could freeze to death because they will not be ready to handle the cold. They have fur coats for a reason and they are not growing in a winter undercoat because you are making it so they don't need one. I know they are your "babies" and you want to care for them, but in reality they are livestock and should not be looked at any other way. You need to do what's best for them... Since they are presently kept inside a barn/structure, as long as they have nice dry bedding, they will all lay down in it and cuddle together, share warmth, and be fine. really... :) In fact, given the opportunity, I'm sure they would love to be outdoors and would go out (no matter how cold) on their own, provided there wasn't any liquid falling from the sky.
 

Carla D

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Ummmm really? truthfully? honestly? OK... not to be harsh, but it has been alluded to and I'll just say it straight out. At their present age (8 weeks or so?), they really don't need the heat lamp at all, and in fact you are doing them a disservice by providing it. :hide It may be too late now, but on all but the coldest nights (I'm talking real sub freezing) I would NOT turn the heat light on, and definitely not during the day.

It's now late fall coming into winter and you are preventing them from adjusting to the coming winter weather. :(:hide If you have a bad winter storm with an arctic blast, and lose power, they could freeze to death because they will not be ready to handle the cold. They have fur coats for a reason and they are not growing in a winter undercoat because you are making it so they don't need one. I know they are your "babies" and you want to care for them, but in reality they are livestock and should not be looked at any other way. You need to do what's best for them... Since they are presently kept inside a barn/structure, as long as they have nice dry bedding, they will all lay down in it and cuddle together, share warmth, and be fine. really... :) In fact, given the opportunity, I'm sure they would love to be outdoors and would go out (no matter how cold) on their own, provided there wasn't any liquid falling from the sky.
I do know that I need to do hats best for them. I’m not good at remembering how long I’ve had. That’s why I put things like when I got them on an electronic calendar. The youngest one turned 5 weeks old yesterday. The rest are no more than three days older. Up until about a week ago they were still shivering very hard. I know that I have a soft heart when it comes to my animals. I hadn’t planned on using a heat lamp past the initial two week old age. So I put the lamp on a timer so it WASNT running nonstop. After I did that and started regulating how long the heat was actually on two of them got really sick with pneumonia. I lost one of those babies. He was actually at the vets office in a heated oxygen tank with a heated coat on as well. His temperature continued to drop. He died at the vets office with all of their expertise. I admit that I kinda jumped in blindly when I got them five weeks ago. I’ve been trying really hard to use common sense at that moment then ask. When I took them to the vet he told me they definitely still needed the heat supplement. His comment to was the rest of my herd looked perfectly healthy but cold. He told me to keep the heat on them . But, my common sense told me that I need to control the amount of time it’s on. Otherwise they will never develop their winter coat. I figured with the timer I can adjust it’s usage one way or another. I have every intention of adjusting that today so it’s off even more. The littler ones have developed a fluffier coat. I don’t think it’s as heavy as it should be, but I’m hoping it will continue to get heavier. The bigger ones on the other hand have not developed any extra fur. I’m assuming it’s because they are a bit bigger they push the smaller ones out of the heat and hog it for themselves. That’s probably wh the smaller ones have a coat that’s a bit thicker. I do have a goal of only having it on when it’s subzero temps. I’m working towards that. But I’m not going to freeze my goats either. I’m tying to keep them warm enough so I don’t have anymore sick babies. Trying to do my part on conserving electricity. And also trying to get them to develop a thicker coat. But, I’m afraid that if I all of a sudden cut their heat entirely I’m going to end up with sick goats again or worse yet, dead ones. I had questioned whether their shivering was a normal reaction to being excited, stressed, or anything else. I was told by several that goats only shiver when they are cold. The shivering has decreased some. I think it’s because they are eating my hay, straw, leaves, grass, and pellets. They are also growing really fast and not finishing their bottles. So I cut the midday bottle out. I am desperately trying to do what’s best for them, all of our animals actually. But, I was thinking that since they are so young and that I don’t have any other big goats to help them along that they wouldn’t be able to stay outdoors all winter. I might have been wrong on that. But, right now I don’t think they’d survive freezing temperatures below freezing for long. I’m doing everything I can think of to promote them growing more fur, keep them stimulated, and to also at least get a fenced in area so they can be outdoors during daylight hours as well. But, unless I feel they are big enough, capable of being outside overnight, and we can get an appropriate pen with shelter created they won’t end up outside at all. We can’t have that either. While I appreciate your concern for their welfare, I don’t appreciate being told I’m doing them a disservice. I’m doing the absolute best I can. We’ve already had snow on the ground here. We’ve had many heavy frosts a lot of them. It’s been freezing for the last three to four weeks now. The only exception is that we are having a little break from that. It hasn’t been getting below 35 degrees now for the last few nights. But, I’m almost certain we will have a lasting snowfall any day now. Our winters usually start around Halloween here. Once the ground freezes we won’t be able to drive posts into the ground very easily and we won’t be able to tolerate being outside for very long periods of time. My getting goats when I did was really bad timing. We have four expectant sows, two of which have just delivered the last few days. We did not like them being in a farrowing crate at all last time around. So we’ve been busily working to get farrowing pens for all four of them. We’re still not done. My husband works full time. I don’t have the strength or the stamina I had before becoming disabled. Plus I have a four year old sidekick with me everywhere I go. I’m unable to hardly get anything done with her hanging onto my leg, telling me she’s gotta go potty, or that she’s cold. But when she starts telling me she wants to go home she’s had all that she’s going to tolerate. So before I get criticized for letting a 4 yr old dictate what I do. We don’t live on our farm. She’s constantly begging to go out there. And she usually fusses when it’s time to go home because she’s not ready to. So, when she says she’s ready to go home she’s beyond ready to go home and we won’t be getting anymore done at the farm anyways so we go home. I really do appreciate your input. I don’t expect you to have read every post or comment that I’ve written in the last week since joining. But know that I’m already stretching my abilities as it is to get both pigs ready to farrow, winterize the farm, bottle feed eight goats, and get them a bigger setting to call home. Up until three weeks ago I was literally running nonstop feeding baby goat at the farm AND at home that I struggled to find time to take a crap much less a bite to eat. I’m working as hard as I physically can to do all that I’ve listed above. Yes I have help from my husband. But he works full time night shift and struggles to find any time for himself to grab a few hours of sleep before he goes to sleep. I can’t very well be out at the farm until midnight-1:00am like I would like to be. She’s too young for that and she has school. But you made me feel like I’m harming my goats and other animals because of the way our animals have been being taken care of. I’m sorry, but I’m very offended about that. Everyone in here is only getting a very small glimpse of what goes on in mylife and at the farm. Nobody should be assuming anything or telling me that I’m harming them or doing a disservice to our animals. I don’t do that to others, as I realize I’m only getting small bits of what is actually going on in their lives, farms, etc.
 

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Hi Carla, hope your day is going well...i have only been on BYH for about three weeks (I think), this was my first time in any type of forum on the internet...i came here looking for help as at that time i was in dire need of help with my baby goat getting ready to kid at eight months of age. She was down for two days before i found BYH and asked for help. I got all kinds of responses, it was overwhelming and i was very unfamiliar with commicating via text only. ..some of the folks here run large farms, some are hobby farmers....please don't feel as though anyone is attacking you or criticizeing you. The resonponces we receive come from experienced people and come from people who have "been there...done that " ...... they are kind hearted people who are taking time out of their busy day to help people like us who are having a problem with our animals....I truly feel your fustration with your busy schedule, children and your physical issues, let alone taking care of another bunch of four legged kids that are totally dependent on you....i give you kudos for giving those goats a home and doing the best that you can to keep them safe and healthy:bowhowever....we can't "shoot the messanger" when we ask for advice.....we have the choice to take the experienced advice that is freely given to us ....or ignore the advice...
when i asked for advice with my goat...her problem was dead on dianosed right here on this site by these people..... unfortunately, when i finally got a vet to come, i lost Samantha and her kid.... I hope everything works out the way you want it to. And i wish you the best of health and happy soul healing goats ....:love
 
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Carla D

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Ummmm really? truthfully? honestly? OK... not to be harsh, but it has been alluded to and I'll just say it straight out. At their present age (8 weeks or so?), they really don't need the heat lamp at all, and in fact you are doing them a disservice by providing it. :hide It may be too late now, but on all but the coldest nights (I'm talking real sub freezing) I would NOT turn the heat light on, and definitely not during the day.

It's now late fall coming into winter and you are preventing them from adjusting to the coming winter weather. :(:hide If you have a bad winter storm with an arctic blast, and lose power, they could freeze to death because they will not be ready to handle the cold. They have fur coats for a reason and they are not growing in a winter undercoat because you are making it so they don't need one. I know they are your "babies" and you want to care for them, but in reality they are livestock and should not be looked at any other way. You need to do what's best for them... Since they are presently kept inside a barn/structure, as long as they have nice dry bedding, they will all lay down in it and cuddle together, share warmth, and be fine. really... :) In fact, given the opportunity, I'm sure they would love to be outdoors and would go out (no matter how cold) on their own, provided there wasn't any liquid falling from the sky.
I wanted to publicly apologize to you for going off on you in response to this reply. I’m sure you have a lot more experience with farm animals than I do, probably several years. While I did take offense to your response that was no reason for me to lash out at you. I should have done what I normally do in similar situations. I should have just kept my mouth shut, or found a polite way to say to you what I did earlier today. You are only the second person to tell me I was or certainly need to do something. The other one was my vet. He told me I most certainly need to keep them warm even if it meant heat lamp, they most definitely look quite healthy. I had been running the lamp on a timer so it wasn’t nonstop on/heating. Because I do know they won’t grow a winter coat if they don’t have a need to, aka I’m using a heat lamp to help them stay warm. I have actually cut it way back now. I’m not comfortable cutting them off cold turkey. I do need to figure out how much cold they can tolerate without shivering first.But please know I’m trying so very hard to learn what I need to know in order to give them the best care and life I possibly can. Until I find my answers I’m trying very hard to sift through all of the information I’m receiving and finding. As someone else pointed out to me, you can’t believe everything you read on the internet. I already knew that, but that was a great reminder to me. Again, I want to apologize to you for going off on you like I did earlier. I know I shouldn’t have blasted you, and that I should have kept my mouth shut. I did reread your comment before I wrote my comment to you. I was figuring I must have misread or didn’t comprehend what you told me. I’m truly sorry. Carla D I was also mistaken about their age. They are only five weeks and not six like I had written. I’ll have to make that correction.
Ummmm really? truthfully? honestly? OK... not to be harsh, but it has been alluded to and I'll just say it straight out. At their present age (8 weeks or so?), they really don't need the heat lamp at all, and in fact you are doing them a disservice by providing it. :hide It may be too late now, but on all but the coldest nights (I'm talking real sub freezing) I would NOT turn the heat light on, and definitely not during the day.

It's now late fall coming into winter and you are preventing them from adjusting to the coming winter weather. :(:hide If you have a bad winter storm with an arctic blast, and lose power, they could freeze to death because they will not be ready to handle the cold. They have fur coats for a reason and they are not growing in a winter undercoat because you are making it so they don't need one. I know they are your "babies" and you want to care for them, but in reality they are livestock and should not be looked at any other way. You need to do what's best for them... Since they are presently kept inside a barn/structure, as long as they have nice dry bedding, they will all lay down in it and cuddle together, share warmth, and be fine. really... :) In fact, given the opportunity, I'm sure they would love to be outdoors and would go out (no matter how cold) on their own, provided there wasn't any liquid falling from the sky.
 
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Carla D

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Hi Carla, hope your day is going well...i have only been on BYH for about three weeks (I think), this was my first time in any type of forum on the internet...i came here looking for help as at that time i was in dire need of help with my baby goat getting ready to kid at eight weeks of age. She was down for two days before i found BYH and asked for help. I got all kinds of responses, it was overwhelming and i was very unfamiliar with commicating via text only. ..some of the folks here run large farms, some are hobby farmers....please don't feel as though anyone is attacking you or criticizeing you. The resonponces we receive come from experienced people and come from people who have "been there...done that " ...... they are kind hearted people who are taking time out of their busy day to help people like us who are having a problem with our animals....I truly feel your fustration with your busy schedule, children and your physical issues, let alone taking care of another bunch of four legged kids that are totally dependent on you....i give you kudos for giving those goats a home and doing the best that you can to keep them safe and healthy:bowhowever....we can't "shoot the messanger" when we ask for advice.....we have the choice to take the experienced advice that is freely given to us ....or ignore the advice...
when i asked for advice with my goat...her problem was dead on dianosed right here on this site by these people..... unfortunately, when i finally got a vet to come, i lost Samantha and her kid.... I hope everything works out the way you want it to. And i wish you the best of health and happy soul healing goats ....:love
I wanted to say I’m sorry about you losing your baby and her kid. That must have been so heartbreaking for you. I’m sorry for your losses.
 
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