Caseous Lymphadenitis (CL) Vaccine for goats

[cmjust0]

360$ later, I have 2 bottles of vaccine....and CL went rampant through my 'herd' of 10 goats in the next year. ALL of them had it.
(My suspicion now is that the vaccine was mishandled en route OR wasn't made properly...)

But...hmmm...none were dying or 'sickly'....just icky lumps that I have to lance / drain. Inconvenient? Yes. The end of the world? Nope.
(Again, keep in mind we don't show so I didn't have to worry about that aspect of it...That would be a whole other ball game.)

I vaccinated all the new kids I kept for breeders, my older carriers, etc. Still kept getting it in anyone here longer than 6 mos. It took nearly 2 yrs to use up all of that vaccine.

I don't sell adults, and anyone who's been exposed to the older carriers is here for life, period.

(I catch every kid at birth, the newborns leave at 7-10 days of age from a 'clean' barn, and not ONCE has a kid I've sold ended up w/ CL....Not once. That's close to 200 kids as the herd has grown. )

Once that vaccine ran out, I did more research and thought "Why not try the Case-Bac?" ....so we did....and suddenly the number of new cases of CL dropped. We've been using it on all of our keepers for the last 3 yrs.

And there ya have it, folks...

As for it being mishandled, consider that Colorado Serum's statement on Case-Bac/Caseous D-T use in goats noted that people could *try* the autogenous vaccine, but they stated that they didn't think it would work very well in goats....maybe it wasn't mishandled at all.

Maybe it just straight-up doesn't work..

Maybe that's why they now require **20** bottles at a minimum, so they can still make $$$.

It's not common for anyone to admit they have CL but it's a LOT more common than folks think. Most practice the "sell 'em at the sale barn as they break out and lie through your teeth" route.

I know what you mean.. We don't have CL in our herd, but I've seen it first-hand, and I had an interesting conversation with a Vet one day that really worried me a lot... This vet's since moved out of state, but when he was here, he was considered to be THE goat vet for this area..

Anyhow, we got on the subject of CL and he said that he really didn't think it was that big a deal.. I was surprised, but he went on to say that a lot of folks who claim never to have had it in their herd are liars, and....now, this is the part that really worried me....that "if you run goats long enough, you're gonna get CL eventually."

Of course, my mind immediately ran to biosecurity, closed herds, clorox foot baths, etc... That's all well and good, but you have to buy a new buck every now and again.. There's an opportunity to bring something in.. Sometimes a friend calls and says "Hey, come help me with my goats"....there's another opportunity for CL to come back on boots and tires.. Sometimes a goat friend just pulls in the driveway to say hey...what's on his tires? What about the whitetail who just ran with CL goats down the road then came to visit my farm?

Unfortunately, the vet's right.. In my opinion, anyway.. Somehow, some way, I can't help but think that it will eventually happen. It's just too daggone prevalent around here.

That said...I just ordered Case-Bac from Jeffers, and my herd will be vaccinated for it this weekend. I'm simply not gonna mess around anymore..

 

[Aped]

Wow this thread really took off. Obviously, I am all for vaccinating with CL for sheep. I think a lot of the people saying they wouldn't touch this stuff and just practice good husbandry is like a person saying they wouldn't get a polio faction back in the day by just deciding not to get the virus. Viruses and Bacteria aren't exactly something you can physically dodge. They're invisible and you can't see them. If you do take your goat to shows it's something that you really have to worry about. You don't know how other people care for their goats.

 

[cmjust0]

Viruses and Bacteria aren't exactly something you can physically dodge. They're invisible and you can't see them.

I agree.. As the saying goes, "life will find a way".. Whether we like it or not, bacteria and virii are forms of life, and they will find a way to replicate and keep their kind moving forward.

If you do take your goat to shows it's something that you really have to worry about. You don't know how other people care for their goats.

That's a fact.. They all look the picture of health when they're freshly clipped, fitted-up, and placed in their cute little pens at the state fair..

On the other hand, I was also asked a while back if I wanted to watch or help drain a CL knot off a goat that was already committed to what was then an upcoming show.. Didn't want to pull the goat from the show, so they were going to lance it a little early and give it a chance to heal before she had to be fitted up.

Um, no....thanks anyway.

 

[cmjust0]

So, hey...I have a question for those of you who are vaccinating with Case-Bac: Where do you stick'em?

Colorado apparently directs you to inject in the 'axillary space' (flank), but then they talk about associated lameness and whatnot.. Seems like a bad idea.

I've also read about SQ'ing over the ribs on one side for the first dose, then the other side for the booster.. That sounds better, for some reason.

And, for that matter...do you guys do the booster right at 30 days, or is that different for goats too?

 

[Roll farms]

I always stick mine in the rump area, sub q. Boost in 3-4 weeks, same place, opposite side.

 

[cmjust0]

Hmm.. No lameness or anything to speak of or anything like that?

All I ever read is "could cause" or "reports of" with respect to the potential reactions to Case-Bac, but I've never once run across a "OMG! HELP ME" post on it.

 

[Roll farms]

None that I can recall. At least none that were bad enough for me to have noticed enough TO recall, if you know what I mean.

I've gimped them up worse w/ Nuflor and hoof trimming, for sure. THOSE, I remember....

 

[Roll farms]

I happened to be in our vets' office picking up the first vaccine I used, and THE "big time" boer breeder from our area was also there.
These folks charge thousands for some of their goats, show all over, etc.
The vet tech hands me mine, looks at her and says, "Oh, since you're here, do you want to pick up your CL vaccine, too?"
I thought she was going to fall through the floor....
And yet, their site STILL says, "CL free".
Yet it was the same type vaccine as mine, made from a sample from your herd.
:/

 

[cmjust0]

Yep...CL is far more prevalent than anyone likes to admit. What I've found is that the deeper you get into the goat world and the friendlier you get with other people who own goats, the more you start hearing about goats with suspicious lumps that (supposedly) get sent right off to the salebarn, or of a CL goat over at such-and-such's farm, etc....

Pretty soon, you realize it's actually a lot of folks' "dirty little secret."

Roll farms.....not sure if I said this before, but I do applaud your openness about CL.

 

[broke down ranch]

Yep...CL is far more prevalent than anyone likes to admit. What I've found is that the deeper you get into the goat world and the friendlier you get with other people who own goats, the more you start hearing about goats with suspicious lumps that (supposedly) get sent right off to the salebarn, or of a CL goat over at such-and-such's farm, etc....

Pretty soon, you realize it's actually a lot of folks' "dirty little secret."

Roll farms.....not sure if I said this before, but I do applaud your openness about CL.

I have read on other threads and/or forums where people talk about "culling" animals that are less-than-perfect so they will no longer carry on that bad trait in their herd, flock, whatever. Yet, they cart them off to the sale barn. What the heck it THAT?!?! "Our animal isn't good enough to breed or carry on a bloodline so I'm gonna let it be someone else's headache."? If an animal has issues the owner doesn't want to deal with or traits that shouldn't be carried on thru their progeny then they should put that animal down or put it to pasture. Period. Why let someone else, who may or may not be totally new to goats (or whatever), deal with it? THAT is why CL and CAE and all those other little nasties are such a concern. Because some people couldn't pull their big boy boots up and do the right thing.

IMHO, if an animal is not worthy of breeding the owner should put it down or, if they can't bear to do that, put to pasture and never bred again.


(off my soapbox now)