The sad state of the Caucasian Ovcharka's in U.S.

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Grazer

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Pips, where exactly did I write no one can say anything bad about the Russian breeders?

Most CO breeders in Russia are bad, not because they mix-breed but because they inbreed a lot and don't health test.
However, no one is officially labeling CO's as being a Russian breed.
Every sane CO breeder out there is honest about the origins of this breed. I also wrote a post about it here: http://www.backyardherds.com/threads/my-view-on-the-caucasian-shepherd-dog.22828/

Do you know why CO's in the link you placed here look exactly like CO's from the modern Russian lines? It's because the Georgians started importing CO's from Russia in the recent years.
Because in Georgia due to different reasons the quality of their native LGD's has tremendously watered down.
I don't care where you are from though, someone fed you the nationalistic nonsense and you are repeating it here in a topic about the CO breeders in U.S. I started.

The Bulgarian kennel you mentioned, the one who borrowed their dogs for that movie "The Way Back" only has CO's from modern Russian lines.
The same dogs you claim are crossbred.
No CO's were on Balkans before the 1980's. There are registers out there, and I am in contact with a lot of presidents of clubs for Russian breeds (including breeds Russia has a patronage over, as they are the ones who created the breed standard and got FCI to recognize CO's) in that part of Europe.
In fact the first FCI CO's that appeared outside Russia were in Eastern Germany somewhere in the late 60's. These dogs were used to guard the Berlin Wall amongst other things. A decade later CO's started appearing in Poland and in Hungary for example, but they wouldn't appear on the Balkans until the 80's.

You are confusing the native LGD breeds from the Balkans with the FCI CO's.


Yes the Soviet Army had different breeding projects going on, where they were trying to create different breeds better suited for their needs.
It is how for example the Black Russian Terrier, Eastern European shepherd and the Moscow Watchdog was created.
But these projects were kept separated from their breeding program for CO's.
You talk about CO's from Russian lines (even though you yourself have a CO from such lines, but obviously you can't even read pedigree's) being mainly crossbreeds as if it's a fact. And you even say this is a fact.
Do you even know that "fact" means: a thing that is indisputably the case? Facts are not based on hearsay or some random websites, they are based on scientific evidence for examples. Something indisputable.

As for the DNA testing, google Mitochondrial DNA Variation in Asian Shepherd Dogs.

FYI Pips, if you want to see what native dogs from Caucasus really look like, take a good look at this album: https://www.facebook.com/hamlik.parsanian/photos

Anyway, you yourself admit you are not an expert on CO's, then why do you continue to argue with me on this?
I started this topic regarding the CO breeders in U.S. what you are doing is incredibly rude and if you continue, I will ask the admin to close this topic.
 
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Grazer

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1 more thing Pips, do you know that just today you are the third person I had this very same argument with?
The previous two arguments happened on a different forum and at least those people knew the difference between native looking types and modern lines in this breed.
I'm starting to get really fed up with people who know nothing to very little about CO's, and don't base their opinions on facts and documents, but somehow manage to track me down and start arguing with me.

You don't even know what patronage means. Obviously you have never even read the FCI breed standard and what it says about the origin of this breed.
Here you go: http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/workingdogs/caucasian_fci.htm
It clearly says origin: USSR (which used to include Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, just to name a few). Patronage: Russia.


Last but not least, take a good look at this:

here's an example of dogs Russians imported from Georgia in the late 1940's/early 1950's

3411043E04410430044004300440043E0436043401948433043E0442041F043E043304320435044004300438041A043004390442043004400.jpg



And here are examples of two CO's from modern Russian lines (they are from the kennel Russkiy Risk), now ask yourself who does your CO resemble? Native dogs from Caucasus or CO's from the modern, Russian lines?
And just for kicks and giggles, you should upload the pedigree of your dog.

(this is Russkiy Risk Verniy Drug)
420044304410441043A04380439042004380441043A041204350440043D044B0439041404400443043305.jpg



(same dog as above, but different angle)
420044304410441043A04380439042004380441043A041204350440043D044B043904140440044304330.jpg



(this is Russkiy Risk Zabava)
420042304210421041A04180419042004180421041A0417041004110410041204100.jpg
 
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